Topic: A lesson on how to handle backpackers
- Mar 26, 2006 06:07pm by RIP - www.SoultakerRecords.com
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Subject I borrowed from another forum that I think fits very well here.
http://www.hiphop-blogs.com/hiphop/2005/06/how_to_handle_a.html
there's more to rap than most people lock themselves into. listen with an open mind, you may just find something you will like.
above link is fixed
- Mar 26, 2006 06:38pm by phism
you copied that link from another forum, where it was shortened with a "..." instead of copying the url.
- Mar 26, 2006 07:38pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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http://www.hiphop-blogs.com/hiphop/2005/06/how_to_handle_a.html
- Mar 26, 2006 07:41pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[quote:0a11161b9b="RIP"]Subject I borrowed from another forum that I think fits very well here.
http://www.hiphop-blogs.com/hiphop/2..._handle_a.html
there's more to rap than most people lock themselves into. listen with an open mind, you may just find something you will like.[/quote:0a11161b9b]
hey RIP I'd like to know the forum so I can get the whole story there as well . feel still in the dark without what touched you enough to wanna post it here help me out
thanks
nrg
- Mar 27, 2006 01:08am by RIP - www.SoultakerRecords.com
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My bad on the link, here it is
http://www.hiphop-blogs.com/hiphop/2005/06/how_to_handle_a.html
open for a serious discussion on the topic. All opinions, facts, what you heard about from your lil cousin, or whoever.....post it. I want to see what yall really think about hiphop or if you are one minded and what see art for art. holla at me.
- Mar 27, 2006 02:15am by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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You could easily swap Kanye's name with Jay's and the piece would still work.
- Mar 27, 2006 03:09pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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Do you know why watered down hiphop sells? I call it the "box" theory. Think about who's really producing the album sales to put songs like Laffy Taffy on top. People with money. More importantly, the children of people with money. When hiphop blew up in the "golden era" it really made our nieghborhoods look larger than life, as hollywood tactics do. Now you've got this image in minds of "niggas, or as we've been degraded even further niggaz" who live in this drug dealing gun toting paradise where all you gotta do is cap this cat, lock this block down and sell this shit to be the man. Oh, did we mention along within bein the man you get to fu*k our beautiful black sisters? See, sometimes people get so far away from the truth that it's easier to live a lie. They don't mention that the cat who got gunned down was the father of a family, that those drugs gettin sold are tearin our communities apart, or the reality of that ho's life was smudged by molestation. Anyway, my "box" theory is this; the majority of America doesn't live this life. People are amazed by things that seem out of thier reach. The record labels played us. They took the most messed up parts of our culture and boxed it, so kids who are well off enough to go to the mall can look at it on posters and buy it, and continue the chain of bein scared of "the scary black folks in the crazy ghetto". The sad part is that we're so media driven that alot of our people fell fictim to the stereotype. Alot of the same cats I used to hustle with are still doin it. They don't have to. Any black man ignorant enough to embrace a major company that glorifies the fuckin of his women (your moms, cousins, aunts, grandmas, daughters, etc.) and the corruption of his nieghborhood (friends & family killed and babies addicted to crack) is a lost hope. WAKE UP, cause our futures black history is lookin really fucked up. Alot of people forget that we are presently creating the future.
So you're damn skippy I'd rather listen to "golden era" hiphop than something with no positivity.
- Mar 27, 2006 03:24pm by D-Crew - -- D-Crew's Young Ace
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[quote:1f439ae407]Remind them that hip hop was never meant to be stagnant or one-dimensional.[/quote:1f439ae407]
I agree with that, but i don't like watching bet or mtv really either, and i'm not a backpacker(i think) and i can't stand mike jones... i have a very diverse music library, ranging from lil webbie and lil boosie to ghostface and raekwon, mac dre to lupe fiasco, lil brother to the mob figaz... and i also think kanye is dope, but not as dope as his underground shit...
- Mar 27, 2006 03:38pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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While I certainly hold companies who execute such exploitation responsible I can't exactly excuse the artists, themselves, who readily participate in this cycle.
- Mar 27, 2006 03:45pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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I heard that
- Mar 27, 2006 06:42pm by RIP - www.SoultakerRecords.com
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I agree with a lot of things yall have said already. I for one cant stand how commercial the genre as a whole has become. Fuckin Laffy Taffy...I hate that song and turn the radio off every time it starts. What bothers me more is that the masses have now fed into this image of what is popular music. There is no artistry, no original thoughts, nothing out that requires you to be creative. I blame the industry and I blame the fans. Im sure we all know 1,000,000 talented artist that should be outselling these half ass brained gimmicks that are put on the shelves, but it doesnt happen. Another addition to this post is a question "Why" Why doesnt the independent artist that is truly talented excel when it comes to record sales.....i think I answered it myself already LOL hit me back
Im not a backpacker, and I dont hate on those that are. Shouldnt music be more universal? Shouldnt artist be more open and acceptive of all genres as long as its good music? my point here is just dont lock your mind into one box!!!!
- Mar 27, 2006 07:48pm by .downplay
Speaking of Laffy Taffy.....
"The Snap Music movement is the latest in a long line
of hiphop innovation to emerge from the city of
Atlanta, Ga., aka "the New Motown". Originating on the
Westside of "the A" at a club called the Poole Palace,
the Snap sound and its accompanying dance have now
become an international phenomena. Songs like Dem
Franchize Boyz' "Lean Wit It, Rock Wit It" and D4L's
"Laffy Taffy" have lifted the sound up outta the hood,
and onto the top of the rap and pop charts. Call it
"post Crunk" if you will, Snap music inspires a laid
back party feel that's more about shakin your dreads
than bussin some heads." ---Marc Decoca...emerging artist currently living in Atlanta
something to think about
- Mar 27, 2006 08:11pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
Music is an artform, a way of expression. At the same time the more money and often in cases the lack of money and need to get some can dilute the art with something that was once popular for some reason......that theory or style then gets milked for all it's worth. It's sad when someone can claim they did and still do a bunch of illegal and immoral things and make it seem like the evil is better than the good.
In the end the art and the good will always win out. The sound of today will just be some one hit wonder 5 to 10 years from now...while the people that were doing there thing the whole time will take the music back over with pure heart and polished skill.
Just a thought.....one hit wonders.....think about the 80's, so much crap came out of that decade. The sad thing about this style of music is that it promotes the bad as if it were good. On the mainstream tip I can see rock music making a pretty big comeback and the rock musicians could easily pave the way to make it easier for the hip hop musicians to claim back their genre (by taking the bad stuff off the radio).
Note: that was just a lot of opinion, and you can feel free to agree or disagree as it is only my opinion and not your's.
- Mar 27, 2006 11:10pm by StikFiga - "i could never be a thug, they dont dress this well"--Malice of the Clipse
whats a backpacker?
naw im playin' i dunno man, i just wish discussions about music didnt always end up like this. my thing, people got prefrences--like what you like, who am i, i aint nobody to be tellin folks what to listen and what not to.
it seems pointless to me, there is to much goin on in the world, hell in my personal life to argue about music. maybe i missed the point.
- Mar 28, 2006 04:57am by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
This is just another independent development; another manifestation of hip-hop. You can inject a morality into it all day long, but the fact that it exists means that it is a valid and organic form of hip-hop. No industry-head pulled it out of their ass and even if they did, people en masse relate to it and that is all that matters. I personally think the Franchise Boyz are hot, but that is neither here nor there. Just let hip-hop be because no amount of reified and antiquated MPC60 hip-hop beats are going to change that.
As far as positivity in hip-hop, it exists, but if you so ahistorically separate the positive and negative and say fuck the negative, then you get a partial and one-sided hip-hop, not a complete one. Positive and negative have always coexisted in hip-hop; show me something that is completely positive and you will find something that is completely marginal. Peace.
- Mar 28, 2006 05:21am by StikFiga - "i could never be a thug, they dont dress this well"--Malice of the Clipse
[quote:0edaf3f6bf="Krisna"]This is just another independent development; another manifestation of hip-hop. You can inject a morality into it all day long, but the fact that it exists means that it is a valid and organic form of hip-hop. No industry-head pulled it out of their ass and even if they did, people en masse relate to it and that is all that matters. I personally think the Franchise Boyz are hot, but that is neither here nor there. Just let hip-hop be because no amount of reified and antiquated MPC60 hip-hop beats are going to change that.
As far as positivity in hip-hop, it exists, but if you so ahistorically separate the positive and negative and say fuck the negative, then you get a partial and one-sided hip-hop, not a complete one. Positive and negative have always coexisted in hip-hop; show me something that is completely positive and you will find something that is completely marginal. Peace.[/quote:0edaf3f6bf]
imsayintho!
- Mar 28, 2006 06:26am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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hard lines in the dirt, negative positive, backpacker, hardcore on and on
what I don't feel is death, poverty, hatred, racism, misogony (woman hating), irresponsibilty towards the children who are listening and taking their que from all of US where ever we comes from. but tellin the news from where you are in a words, beats, bodies, images, sounds, I go 4 that wherever it comes from. long live HIPHOP this culture and may it morph as often as it needs to to tell the stories of the folks living it.
- Mar 28, 2006 05:18pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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"As far as positivity in hip-hop, it exists, but if you so ahistorically separate the positive and negative and say fuck the negative, then you get a partial and one-sided hip-hop, not a complete one." - krisna
Yeah, I agree. I'm a realist. However, doesn't mean I should be passive about an issue that's producing a negative outcome.
- Mar 28, 2006 05:54pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:ef16ec35ae="NRG"]hard lines in the dirt, negative positive, backpacker, hardcore on and on
what I don't feel is death, poverty, hatred, racism, misogony (woman hating), irresponsibilty towards the children who are listening and taking their que from all of US where ever we comes from. but tellin the news from where you are in a words, beats, bodies, images, sounds, I go 4 that wherever it comes from. long live HIPHOP this culture and may it morph as often as it needs to to tell the stories of the folks living it.[/quote:ef16ec35ae]
I'm personally not a fan of such themes, but I realize that they've existed virtually since Rap's inception. Why are we decrying the perceived "ugly side" of the genre today? Rappers didn't start objectifying women recently. More importantly, women were objectified long before the artform existed.
I just don't understand how we can have such rigid ideals of what Rap should and shouldn't be.
On the one hand, NWA was legendary and vital to what Rap has become.
On the other, they were misogynists who advocated violence.
What side do you stand on?
Or do you just recognize and appreciate their contributions to the growth of the genre and overall culture?
- Mar 28, 2006 06:19pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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reach, my comments were in general for all time period. HipHop did NOT invent any of these things. Coming from within larger more established cultures, hiphop would be reflective of the larger culture(s) issues, all of them.
we argue and have argued about the things below incessantly. When you put everything into a dualistic paradigm, you automatically, create tensions.
all I know is "what I don't feel is senseless death, poverty, hatred, racism, misogony (woman hating), irresponsibilty thoughtless behavior in regards to the children who are listening and taking their que from all of US, where ever we comes from."
and yes these thoughts are perhaps of a judgemental, dualistic, thinking
nrg
- Mar 28, 2006 06:30pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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Understood.
I was piggybacking, in part, on what KB said.
- Mar 28, 2006 06:57pm by trip
yeah... I don't have anything against crap like laffy taffy etc. the people who produce it or the people who listen to it
it just pisses me off I can't listen to some good hip-hop on the radio or BET or elsewhere OR buy it in stores
yeah I guess I can listen to some good stuff maybe once a week a couple stations have some good sessions going on for an hour, but I don't plan my day around that so I usually miss them.
what upsets me the most is trying to find these hip-hop gems.... artists I've never heard of out there that when I listen to them I'm blown away
it takes hard work to find these artists... they obviously aren't going to be played in the clubs because they used more than 30 words in the lyrics and dont have 3 minute long hooks.... since they aren't in the clubs they aren't going to be on the charts so there's very low publicity
it takes me hours to find artists to listen to sometimes, going through samples on sites trying to find something new
- Mar 28, 2006 07:24pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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Myspace Music can be helpful.
- Mar 28, 2006 07:42pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
The historical theme is kind of funny.....I remember Ice T was super controversial (as he should have been considered at the time)....He came out with lyrics about pimpin and all that, then with a heavy metal band with a song about killing cops.
Music is music and life is life.....it was already mentioned it goes beyond hip hop and it certainly does. Ice T is a good example...he did that in two genres of music, then went on to do something completely different and seems to be able to use whatever people hated the most about him to his advantage as an actor be it in a positive or a negative role.
Censorship is not right imo, but on the other side of the token put someone in a postition of being a "star" and people are going to look up to them and often try to emulate their actions (or at least what they think their actions are).
Most of the people that make it to the top and act like they are gangstas, pimps or whatever are just full of shit and about as transparant as saran wrap....however many of the youngsters see this and think it's real....they are somewhat famous people and some of the kids look up to that. Part of being a responsible adult is to let the kids know it's nothing but a bunch of bullshit and that it is a bunch of bullshit they had better not think about trying.
So is it about hip hop.......no it's about life. It's about right and wrong......the wrong should never get promoted as being ok, and since it already has people need to step up and let the kids know that it is wrong despite what the media says. So no it's not about hip hop or even music in general.....it's about humanity.
Edit:caught a typo and had a quote that was used prior to going off on the rant.
- Mar 28, 2006 08:02pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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I'm wondering then, how this discussion of humanity compartmentalized itself into a discussion on how to handle backpackers?
- Mar 28, 2006 08:17pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
Ha I don't even know what the hell a backpacker is
- Mar 28, 2006 08:30pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
In all reality I was talking about how postive vs negative in music or anything else for that matter does have an impact......even if 99% of the negative is based out of facade. As humans we can't be perfect, but to allow the negative to look like the thing to do is just morally wrong. To say i do some sort of illegal act that would result in a life sentence...saying this in a position where i'm in the spotlight and make it sound cool while doing so......Kids by nature do stupid things often and some of the best lessons are learned mistakes, but if a kid thinks shooting someone is cool then goes and shoots someone cause their favorate wack ass rapper did it (or at least said they did)....Then what? Also say a kid likes to act stupid and isn't afraid to get shot for acting stupid......50 cent must act stupid a lot having been shot 9 times and he's still alive isn't he?
The same can be said about video games in all reality.....
Can some gangsta rapper make a kid go out and shoot someone.....doubtfull, but it can put the idea in a kids head especially if people aren't there to tell the kid not to listen to the shit and hand him some Al Green instead...Same goes for the video games or anything else. The media doesn't control the people. The people control the media. Seems to me that the people are really interested in crap in general these days.
- Mar 28, 2006 08:31pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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Nature is a model I like to use to explore my daily life. so from a nature standpoint, no matter what chaos happens, everywhere there is a winter, summer, spring and fall. are they the same every where? NO, nor should they be. they are different becuz there are different factor creating the weather patterns and the patterns influence the final result. is there a RIGHT AND WRONG PATTERN, not really, there are just factors that occur and once they have occured, they add to the results and this creates CHANGE.
we must change its the thing that happens every day
I also think " I will be the change I want to see in the world" pretty heady stuff, but it beats going with the flow when you don't resonate with the "flow"
peace
- Mar 28, 2006 08:36pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[quote:5cad87990b="Reach."]I'm wondering then, how this discussion of humanity compartmentalized itself into a discussion on how to handle backpackers?[/quote:5cad87990b]
cuz it sets up a right and wrong thing to BE inside of the subculture of HIPHOP. and if we are gonna talk about how we are different more than what we share, then that is an ongoing discussion all over the world we know of like the PLANET (world).
not hard to see there are these kinds of dualistic pairings in most situations. the minute you become firm on most things, in dualistic processing there has to be an other that is either desirable or undesirable.
hiphop is not immune to this cultural issues.
- Mar 28, 2006 09:59pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:e53ae393ad="Distorted_Mastermind"]In all reality I was talking about how postive vs negative in music or anything else for that matter does have an impact......even if 99% of the negative is based out of facade. As humans we can't be perfect, but to allow the negative to look like the thing to do is just morally wrong. To say i do some sort of illegal act that would result in a life sentence...saying this in a position where i'm in the spotlight and make it sound cool while doing so......Kids by nature do stupid things often and some of the best lessons are learned mistakes, but if a kid thinks shooting someone is cool then goes and shoots someone cause their favorate wack ass rapper did it (or at least said they did)....Then what? Also say a kid likes to act stupid and isn't afraid to get shot for acting stupid......50 cent must act stupid a lot having been shot 9 times and he's still alive isn't he?
The same can be said about video games in all reality.....
Can some gangsta rapper make a kid go out and shoot someone.....doubtfull, but it can put the idea in a kids head especially if people aren't there to tell the kid not to listen to the shit and hand him some Al Green instead...Same goes for the video games or anything else. The media doesn't control the people. The people control the media. Seems to me that the people are really interested in crap in general these days.[/quote:e53ae393ad]
I believe artists should be personally accountable for what they say...
I just think there's a much bigger picture here.
- Mar 28, 2006 10:01pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:a0badcdd44="NRG"][quote:a0badcdd44="Reach."]I'm wondering then, how this discussion of humanity compartmentalized itself into a discussion on how to handle backpackers?[/quote:a0badcdd44]
cuz it sets up a right and wrong thing to BE inside of the subculture of HIPHOP. and if we are gonna talk about how we are different more than what we share, then that is an ongoing discussion all over the world we know of like the PLANET (world).
not hard to see there are these kinds of dualistic pairings in most situations. the minute you become firm on most things, in dualistic processing there has to be an other that is either desirable or undesirable.
hiphop is not immune to this cultural issues.[/quote:a0badcdd44]
And rightly so...
But I'm not hearing a call for balance.
What I'm hearing is a call for a one-dimensional music genre.
I'm striving for balance.
Striving for the inclusion of artists with more positive images.
- Mar 28, 2006 11:08pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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from ruminations by krs one the chapter "The state of HIPHOP" the challenges and the solutions
"When we made Hiphop, we made it hoping it would be about peace, love, unity, and having fun so that people could get away from the negativity that was plaguing our streets (gand violence, drug abuse, self-hate, violence among those of African and latino descent) . Even though this negativity still happens here and there, as the culture progresses, We play a big role in conflict resolution and enforcing positivity."
Afrika Bambaataa
I think the importance of this statement as a [b:a3e9abd9dc]mission statement for the total of Hiphop culture[/b:a3e9abd9dc], is that this prompts this thread and ALL threads along the lines of what Hiphop culture is about and how WE might be thinking and therefore carrying (acting & behaving) ourselves especially in current times.
As in Nature with its definate seasons acting as a steady drum beat for whatever cliimate you live in, so it is with these intentions they (early Hiphop culture and the circumstances they faced) set into motion by speaking them at the early stages of this culture.
This is the mission statement of OUR CULTURE whether you have said it yourself or not.
Hardcore music Challenges, in that it reports the actual and of late, glorifies of the conditions some if of us have experienced growing up in whatever part of a country feeling left, disconnected, disregarded. regarding this
Bam says:
Even though this negativity still happens here and there, as the culture progresses, We play a big role in conflict resolution and enforcing positivity." In response some "made" another subculture that fit the circumstances.
backpackers speakwhat hardcore danes "weak ass" portion of the statement that wants peace, unity, love and fun.
[size=18:a3e9abd9dc]they are both true about Hiphop. [/size:a3e9abd9dc] and to me need not fight with each other.
WE want upliftment, fun, party, celebration, encouragement, peacefulness, we want to BE OK
this to me is why this conversation is non-stop and never ending.
Hiphop is humanity. how could we ever talk about humanity or hiphop separately?
- Mar 28, 2006 11:32pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[quote:e2442442e9="Reach."]
And rightly so...
But I'm not hearing a call for balance.
What I'm hearing is a call for a one-dimensional music genre.
I'm striving for balance.
Striving for the inclusion of artists with more positive images.[/quote:e2442442e9]
Then. . . .. . . . . all of us could start with becoming the change WE want to see.
network, network, network with everybody everywhere all the time. let the lines in the dirt blur more.
invite hardcore artists to share the same bill, do collaborations, shop and sell beats, buy and rhyme over beats. all locally, of course.
nationally, I already see signs that if not the labels, at least the artists are reaching out to bridge this canyon between the two, in fact, artists of all genres are doing more collaborating.
some of this is a backlash against the homogenized Radio Control and some is just good business sense. Artists realize, THE PEOPLE, if taxed or stressed by the politics of music too much, will take their tiny available cash and go bowl, fish, scrapbook, or something less stressful. After all, to the public, its entertainment first. and is more likely the results without the politics and fighting.
- Mar 28, 2006 11:42pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:e3219a7bfb="NRG"]from ruminations by krs one the chapter "The state of HIPHOP" the challenges and the solutions
"When we made Hiphop, we made it hoping it would be about peace, love, unity, and having fun so that people could get away from the negativity that was plaguing our streets (gand violence, drug abuse, self-hate, violence among those of African and latino descent) . Even though this negativity still happens here and there, as the culture progresses, We play a big role in conflict resolution and enforcing positivity."[/quote:e3219a7bfb]
Isn't KRS-One the artist who penned the "Criminal Minded" album?
[quote:e3219a7bfb]WE want upliftment, fun, party, celebration, encouragement, peacefulness, we want to BE OK[/quote:e3219a7bfb]
Who is "WE"?
- Mar 28, 2006 11:46pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
www.emceereach.com
www.myspace.com/reach
www.twitter.com/emceereach
www.youtube.com/reachtv
www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2
www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
[quote:ec8d3a102c="NRG"]
invite hardcore artists to share the same bill, do collaborations, shop and sell beats, buy and rhyme over beats. all locally, of course.
nationally, I already see signs that if not the labels, at least the artists are reaching out to bridge this canyon between the two, in fact, artists of all genres are doing more collaborating.[/quote:ec8d3a102c]
I'm no stranger to this.
I've shared a number of bills with quote-unquote "hardcore" artists. As "hardcore" as you can get even.
For quite some time now.
- Mar 28, 2006 11:52pm by StikFiga - "i could never be a thug, they dont dress this well"--Malice of the Clipse
im curious, does anyone here really believe that hiphop alone is destroying the black community? i know the question sounds loaded, but it really isnt, just that notion trips me out when i talk to people say "black folks are this way cause of all that rap music" etc. etc.
- Mar 28, 2006 11:56pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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I, for one, don't.
There are so many pre-existing ills that existed long before Rap ever came on the scene.
That said, the negative imagery does nothing to help matters, but we have to realize there's a much bigger problem.
You have to go to the root of the problem.
- Mar 29, 2006 12:05am by StikFiga - "i could never be a thug, they dont dress this well"--Malice of the Clipse
[quote:d661dc6242="Reach."]I, for one, don't.
There are so many pre-existing ills that existed long before Rap ever came on the scene.
That said, the negative imagery does nothing to help matters, but we have to realize there's a much bigger problem.
You have to go to the root of the problem.[/quote:d661dc6242]
thats all im sayin, the root, lets deal with that first ya know? im not gonna add this thread anymore haha
- Mar 29, 2006 12:12am by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
It's not race.....the negative aspects in certain music regardless of genre and regardless of race can and will have a negative impact on the youth....funny Reach said root.......I was thinking money is the root of all evils and that is one of the things that gets portrayed in way it should be viewed as negative, however money is needed to live......once again back to balance.
In all reality it does start with one person.....one person hardheaded enough to say I'm not going to support that crap.
- Mar 29, 2006 12:58am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[b:c9143645fa]HELL NO!!!!![/b:c9143645fa]
personally I think black culture specifically is reflective of imitating the dominant culture. its icon is money and power and at either end of the spectrum what you see iin dominant culture is whatever it takes to have money and power or winning, be it the presidencey or meth labs.
in black cullture you see the same .
- Mar 29, 2006 03:40am by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
Money is not power, and money doesn't bring happiness. Power is telling the person with the money no thanks I don't feel I should act the fool just to make some cash (regardless of amount).
- Mar 29, 2006 06:16am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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soundsgood distorted. but as you can see, not everybody is defining power in the same terms. now we are back to the duality process. I amy agree with you, but I know there are others that exercize power in slightly to completely different manners.
- Mar 29, 2006 07:31am by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
I'm not going to post on this topic anymore, but will leave with a few comments.
First I know for myself I was speaking in opinion and feel there is no concrete question, answer, problem, or solution for said topic....there believe it is all opinion.
Second keep in mind when I post on topics like this I don't always go 100% with my viewpoint. I try to see things from as many angles as possible, which can keep things interesting and possibly open minds (my own and/or others) to new ideas or seeing a different perspective on said topic.
It is ok to agree, just as it should be ok to disagree.
Til the next time.
- Mar 29, 2006 09:18am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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when i post in these types of threads, I am often thinking out loud in response to something some one posted. I really enjoy this type of discussion, not because I think we will find a solution necessarily, but because, I get to know something more about the people in our community and hopefully them about me. I believe myself to be a dreamer, and I am fine about that. dreamers have a role to play in the world just like others have their role.
I used to be hesitant to post/share my ideas in the forum this way, but you have all taught me to do me and that you will do you. I like this way of living. doing myself and trusting you will do you.
thanks for the lively exchange today, I could hardly leave the board it was so much fun.
nrg
- Mar 29, 2006 02:59pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
[quote:4db2de2049]I'm personally not a fan of such themes, but I realize that they've existed virtually since Rap's inception. Why are we decrying the perceived "ugly side" of the genre today? Rappers didn't start objectifying women recently. More importantly, women were objectified long before the artform existed.
I just don't understand how we can have such rigid ideals of what Rap should and shouldn't be.
On the one hand, NWA was legendary and vital to what Rap has become.
On the other, they were misogynists who advocated violence.
What side do you stand on?
Or do you just recognize and appreciate their contributions to the growth of the genre and overall culture?[/quote:4db2de2049]
As articulate as it gets, Reach. You should read a new series I wrote on misogyny and hip-hop...if you get the time.
http://democracyandhiphop.blogspot.com/
- Mar 29, 2006 03:17pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
"America was violent before Rap--fact." -KRS-One
Hip-hop is merely the avenue of expression in which all the ugliness and beauty that is part and parcel of living in America materializes itself. If hip-hop inspires one to murder another, that doesn't make hip-hop responsible. This person simply saw hip-hop as the medium for translating their anger. Hip-hop met all the historical ingredients for this to occur.
People will find cultural inspiration for anything wherever they can find it. That is the way we function.
Hip-hop is also an avenue for many positive things. But I don't want just a positive hip-hop, because a positive hip-hop is an incomplete hip-hop. I want a genuine hip-hop that reflects everything about the condition in which we live. I want sexism, violence, destruction, racism, and homophobia to be thematic in hip-hop...why? Because it exists. And I want hip-hop to culturally express these phenomenons and morees so that I can better understand them.
When we are able to successfully combat these ills in larger society, we will see them, in proportion, being combatted in hip-hop. When we figure out that all of the negativity in hip-hop will not disappear until it disappears altogether in America, we will then see the superfluity of this conversation.
Peace.
- Mar 29, 2006 03:43pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
I don't think anyone is saying that hiphop is "responsible". However, why promote this sort of violence to impressionable minds? I like "gangsta music", but I know it's only entertainment, I'm 25 years old.
- Mar 29, 2006 03:58pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
I don't think I accused anyone, either.
First of all, I think the word "promote" doesn't capture the way violence manifests itself in hip-hop. It is less promoted and more represented. All I'm saying is that America is violent, therefore hip-hop is violent. Violence is not the sum total of hip-hop, but if you discount it, or take some conservative, kneejerk, C. Delores Tucker stance against it, you get a partial picture.
Secondly, gangsta rap is not simply entertainment. It is an indicator of what is happening in America and in the consciousness of its people.
Thirdly, If you think are you are not impressionable, then you are being a little disingenuous. Everyone is impressionable, but when you situate yourself outside of "those with impressionable minds" it kind of hints that folks other than yourself can't think for themselves. If we are talking about young people, hip-hop will not [i:5ecd2f2f30]make[/i:5ecd2f2f30] them violent. If they become violent it is due to larger material conditions which shape them and hip-hop, as I stated above, becomes their medium for carrying it out.
Fourth, gangsta is hip-hop.
- Mar 29, 2006 05:40pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:72d604aa53="Distorted_Mastermind"]It's not race.....the negative aspects in certain music regardless of genre and regardless of race can and will have a negative impact on the youth....funny Reach said root.......I was thinking money is the root of all evils and that is one of the things that gets portrayed in way it should be viewed as negative, however money is needed to live......once again back to balance.
In all reality it does start with one person.....one person hardheaded enough to say I'm not going to support that crap.[/quote:72d604aa53]
There's nothing inherently evil about money.
[b:72d604aa53]"For the love of money is the root of all evil..."[/b:72d604aa53] - 1 Timothy 6:10
- Mar 29, 2006 05:45pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
www.emceereach.com
www.myspace.com/reach
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www.youtube.com/reachtv
www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2
www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
[quote:a06d6b6d09="Krisna"]When we figure out that all of the negativity in hip-hop will not disappear until it disappears altogether in America, we will then see the superfluity of this conversation.
[/quote:a06d6b6d09]
Exactly...
Rap does not exist in a vacuum.
- Mar 29, 2006 06:06pm by All.Citi Location: CITY OF KINGS
the way i percieve it is the further from mainstream you get the more truth comes out in artists and their music. and yeah i know 93717431 artists that deserve to be in that numero uno spot on 106 and park, but those artist wouldn't be those artists if they were...they'd just be another 50. my stomach churns everytime i turn on my dial in my car or at work or where ever beause those who deserve it will never see it...you gotta have money to make money. so how does that make sense when creativity thrives in poverty.
- Mar 29, 2006 06:06pm by phism
i just now read that.
kanye west sucks.
- Mar 29, 2006 06:11pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:0a977bb2ff="phism"]
kanye west sucks.[/quote:0a977bb2ff]
😯 😯 😯
- Mar 29, 2006 06:37pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Yikes, you don't really think that about Kanye West do you?
If half of the underground stuff the we so liberally label "true" hip-hop got played on the radio, I guarantee you folks would not feel it. Perhaps the reason is because some of these artists shroud themselves amongst a very marginal base of listeners. Anticon will forever be for suburban white youth. That doesn't mean black folks don't listen, but it does mean that the above statement will remain the general trend.
The shit that is on the radio is hot. I do agree, however, that there is a monopoly on the hip-hop that is aired. There is a lot of good hip-hop that does not have the financial backing needed to be played. The fact still remains, however, that a lot of the newer artists on the radio are/were underground, e.g. Mike Jones and Paul Wall. These cats have been puttin' it down in Houston for years before their releases. So show some love and quit factionalizing the culture.
Peace.
- Mar 29, 2006 06:39pm by E.N.Elder
I think something to point out about gangster rap is that alot of the well done gangster rap (or hiphop in general) isnt just about how great living that lifestyle is, but also how bad it is. Just listen to jay-Z's D'evils or the verses on C.R.E.A.M. or even Childrens Story, what makes these songs so good is that although they are about negative things in a way they're positive songs because there not really glorifying as much as condemning that lifestyle. Even N.W.A.'s F*ck da Police, sounds completely negative but there's a message in that song, just listen to the beginning, "When something happens in S. Central Los Angeles nothing happens its just another nigga dead" Its not like the negative comes outta no where, like krisna said its a product of society. The best music contains both positive an negative, cuz w/ out positive theres no resolution and w/out negative there no conflict, and honestly that would be boring.
[/u]
- Mar 29, 2006 11:41pm by phism
yeah, i do think that about kanye west. if i didn't have to hear his voice, or see him, and he just made beats, i'd be entirely cool with him.
but he's got a fucked up, creepy ego. he can't rap. and i don't like frat boys.
i guess props for talking about diamonds and for talking shit on bush on national tv but whatever. and i don't mean that from a backpacker perspective if that's what you thought. i think lil jon is more "underground" than kanye west...
- Mar 30, 2006 03:19am by RIP - www.SoultakerRecords.com
www.soundclick.com/soultakerrecords
www.myspace.com/soultakerrecords
[img:c9af69df35]http://www.soultakerrecords.com/images/STBannerAtRikksReviews.jpg[/img:c9af69df35]
[img:c9af69df35]http://www.soultakerrecords.com/images/anilogo.gif[/img:c9af69df35] Location: topeka, ks by way of Benton Harbor, Michigan
[quote:eda5361815="NRG"][quote:eda5361815="Reach."]
And rightly so...
But I'm not hearing a call for balance.
What I'm hearing is a call for a one-dimensional music genre.
I'm striving for balance.
Striving for the inclusion of artists with more positive images.[/quote:eda5361815]
Then. . . .. . . . . all of us could start with becoming the change WE want to see.
network, network, network with everybody everywhere all the time. let the lines in the dirt blur more.
invite hardcore artists to share the same bill, do collaborations, shop and sell beats, buy and rhyme over beats. all locally, of course.
nationally, I already see signs that if not the labels, at least the artists are reaching out to bridge this canyon between the two, in fact, artists of all genres are doing more collaborating.
some of this is a backlash against the homogenized Radio Control and some is just good business sense. Artists realize, THE PEOPLE, if taxed or stressed by the politics of music too much, will take their tiny available cash and go bowl, fish, scrapbook, or something less stressful. After all, to the public, its entertainment first. and is more likely the results without the politics and fighting.[/quote:eda5361815]
The idea of networking and blending all styles is of course a very good idea, but it has to be done correctly. Every style or even every artist doesnt necessarily compliment one another. And most importantly, where I think the topic really stems from is some people are so single minded that they refuse to even appreciate other aspects of Hip Hop. Every one is different, that's what makes the music great, but to me its a problem when every thing on the radio is all the same. That is in no way the true form of the art. There is one formula the industry has and wants, and will not stray from. So its not just backpackers, its for all artist that are narrow minded. There's some gems out there that dont do it like you do!!! feel me
- Mar 30, 2006 08:05am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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tell us more rip about how to do it correctly then. Lay it out for all to see so we can get started on making inroads and productive changes,
peace
nrg
- Mar 30, 2006 01:51pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
[quote:259b79a4c6="phism"]
but he's got a fucked up, creepy ego. he can't rap. and i don't like frat boys[/quote:259b79a4c6]
Kanye's no more egotistical than Jay-Z or 50 Cent for that matter.
Ego is almost an extension of a rapper's arm these days.
We can't single Ye out.
- Apr 1, 2006 03:18am by RIP - www.SoultakerRecords.com
www.soundclick.com/soultakerrecords
www.myspace.com/soultakerrecords
[img:c9af69df35]http://www.soultakerrecords.com/images/STBannerAtRikksReviews.jpg[/img:c9af69df35]
[img:c9af69df35]http://www.soultakerrecords.com/images/anilogo.gif[/img:c9af69df35] Location: topeka, ks by way of Benton Harbor, Michigan
[quote:db34dd6c5c="NRG"]tell us more rip about how to do it correctly then. Lay it out for all to see so we can get started on making inroads and productive changes,
peace
nrg[/quote:db34dd6c5c]
It seems to me that there are a lot of educated and talented people in the area, and by the discussion this forum grew into there are a lot right here. A few of you probably know each other, heard of each other, and maybe have worked with a few of the artist on this forum before, but how close is the underground scene in KC, Lawrence, Topeka, or any of the surrounding areas? Nobody has to like every artist they come in contact with, and it would be foolish to think so, but I believe most independent/underground artist should have a mutual respect for one another and stop backstabbing each other. Im originally from Michigan and the underground scene in the Ann Arbor/Detroit area is more inclusive of artist of all types. True it may be about who you know or who you cool with, but if you doing it, outside like me selling cd's in the damn winter, you get respect for that, cause its hard fa sho.
I cant really say I have a battle plan to lay out or a strategy to attack the music scene in the surrounding areas, but I do think there are enough artist involved here to start changing things if they wanted. For instance mixed shows, by that I mean different type of artist performing, yep break up the CLICK attitude. Not just open mic nights, but organized shows that expose the fans of our music to multiple individuals. Build a core of individuals that are looking to expose everybody cause there are by far too many people going unheard. Think of all the cross marketing and promoting everyone would benefit from. Time to make the scene as a whole blow!!!! Another suggestion put together mixtapes of artist in the area and put it on the streets. Of course all that wish to be involved would have to contribute to the cost of manufacturing it....then give it to the streets free. One to three free disc with a gang of artist on it will let the people know who's out there doing what, and who to look for. How many people on here actually record tracks? Get every artist to put in $10, pick the best track from each artist......Underground Mixtape Vol 1-??? Would be done in no time at all, pressed up and ready to go.
I may be optimistic about a unified music scene, but it would do more good than harm for all artist as a whole. Im not saying open your doors and arms blindly to any and everybody, cause there are some strange acting cats out there that cant be trusted. I just want to see more shows where nobody gets shot, hear more music from good local artist that are on the grind, and make moves for the Midwest. I got a ton more thoughts about the whole idea that would bore some of you to death, so I’m going to end it here.
You got ideas? Post that. I want to know what other artist think and since we all not in a room together (which also should happen one day) put your ideas in writing here.
- Apr 1, 2006 06:06pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[quote:8bf9909b3e="NRG"]tell us more rip about how to do it correctly then. Lay it out for all to see so we can get started on making inroads and productive changes,
peace
nrg[/quote:8bf9909b3e]
RIP[quote:8bf9909b3e]It seems to me that there are a lot of educated and talented people in the area, and by the discussion this forum grew into there are a lot right here. A few of you probably know each other, heard of each other, and maybe have worked with a few of the artist on this forum before, but how close is the underground scene in KC, Lawrence, Topeka, or any of the surrounding areas?[/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg said
I'd like all these scenes to be closer, I know that artists from these cities post here. I'd be open to suggestion for how the site mightconnect and represent our sister cities from colorado kansas border to missouri illinois border. anybody with insights could talk about it the Building a Network Thread.
[quote:8bf9909b3e]Nobody has to like every artist they come in contact with, and it would be foolish to think so, but I believe most independent/underground artist should have a mutual respect for one another and stop backstabbing each other. [/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg said
I agree with you on that, but it ain't me that is challenged by the exsistence of another artist. the one thing I feel for sure tho is Big Me even BIGGER US mind set would go further to make this whole region jump out the center of the country. Not just missouri and kansas artists but the entire region blowin on it own terms makes the future more secure for those who are ready to blow with it. hell even make it better for several generations of artists to come if we work it right. yes I have thoughts on that too!
Im originally from Michigan and the underground scene in the Ann Arbor/Detroit area is more inclusive of artist of all types. True it may be about who you know or who you cool with, but if you doing it, outside like me selling cd's in the damn winter, you get respect for that, cause its hard fa sho.
nrg says
First off, Welcome to KC RIP. Second, sounds like in michigan artists have been able to move their consciouness to a larger more encompassing vision. I haven't seen that as often around here until lately.
for a great feel of what it has been like read "A Rose" article for the back story. I feel if this area doesn't move towards a unifed effort, it could miss the boat again in terms of how this region is perceived by everyone outside of it. the fits and start, piecemeal approach has not work for us yet. Frankly I think everyone outside the midwest is like damn, the got their shit together yet?
[quote:8bf9909b3e]I cant really say I have a battle plan to lay out or a strategy to attack the music scene in the surrounding areas, but I do think there are enough artist involved here to start changing things if they wanted. [/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg says
Hell you know me if there's something I always got is at least a skeleton battle plan rumbling around in my beedy brain. Problem for me is I'm not an artists in terms of any of the elements ( which is currently how i am defining Being Hiphop, so I hesitate to pontificate (yeah right) but I'm one hellava supporter and a vocal one at that.
[quote:8bf9909b3e]For instance mixed shows, by that I mean different type of artist performing, yep break up the CLICK attitude. Not just open mic nights, but organized shows that expose the fans of our music to multiple individuals. [/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg says
this has happened and I think is and will be happening more. Partly because there is starting to be that group of folks who unbeknown to each other becoming bridges and connectors into many of the clicks that exsist in the kansas missouri scene. I am a fan of cross pollunation myself.
[quote:8bf9909b3e] Build a core of individuals that are looking to expose everybody cause there are by far too many people going unheard. Think of all the cross marketing and promoting everyone would benefit from. Time to make the scene as a whole blow!!!! [/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg says
as I mentioned before I see signs of this beginning, what is not so clear is whether these "early adapters" of this Big Me even BIGGER US idea are all talking to each other, want to talk to, need to talk to each other and mostly if that matters right now. most important is that lots more folks are aware of each other.
[quote:8bf9909b3e] Another suggestion put together mixtapes of artist in the area and put it on the streets. Of course all that wish to be involved would have to contribute to the cost of manufacturing it....then give it to the streets free. One to three free disc with a gang of artist on it will let the people know who's out there doing what, and who to look for. How many people on here actually record tracks? Get every artist to put in $10, pick the best track from each artist......Underground Mixtape Vol 1-??? Would be done in no time at all, pressed up and ready to go. [/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg says
I think there are some projects like that floating around and I for sure know that is what the intent of the"a Dangerous Group: Middlegroundhiphop.com-pilation project wants to do.
[quote:8bf9909b3e]I may be optimistic about a unified music scene, but it would do more good than harm for all artist as a whole. Im not saying open your doors and arms blindly to any and everybody, cause there are some strange acting cats out there that cant be trusted. I just want to see more shows where nobody gets shot, hear more music from good local artist that are on the grind, and make moves for the Midwest.[/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg says
Join the optimistic club. What keeps coming up for me is one word "TIMING". historically, changes of the group consciousness kind are amazing to watch and difficult to predict. Read the book "Tipping Point " for some on the real shit about group change. I have such a hope for so much from this area (kansas and missouri) stl is not missouri there is so much more to hear from just as lawrence is not kansas there is so much more to hear. of course, I have some notions about how but thats what they are notions and I am sure there are others out there with notions as well. Time will be the bearer of change. this is not the first time there has been such a pool to amazing talent in this area, witness that time was the factor in those instances as it is now.
[quote:8bf9909b3e]I got a ton more thoughts about the whole idea that would bore some of you to death, so I’m going to end it here. [/quote:8bf9909b3e]
nrg says
Bored? not hardly, we should hook up in person, invite others like us to a place for snacks and brews to just rock back talk, record it, and later acess what was said for the purpose of moving things forward. Imo call such a gathering in april cuz it is TIME 4 THAT MUCH.
[quote:8bf9909b3e]You got ideas? Post that. I want to know what other artist think and since we all not in a room together (which also should happen one day) put your ideas in writing here.[/quote:8bf9909b3e]
see like minds travel in the same circle. in the same room and all
thanks RIP for getting back to me/us with some fine concreteness that moves things towards the forward tip
imo take these a portion of this current thread and make a new on from it so it can flow with its own energy for a while. I'll soon announce a gathering in that thread.
- Apr 1, 2006 07:09pm by RIP - www.SoultakerRecords.com
www.soundclick.com/soultakerrecords
www.myspace.com/soultakerrecords
[img:c9af69df35]http://www.soultakerrecords.com/images/STBannerAtRikksReviews.jpg[/img:c9af69df35]
[img:c9af69df35]http://www.soultakerrecords.com/images/anilogo.gif[/img:c9af69df35] Location: topeka, ks by way of Benton Harbor, Michigan
Definitely keep me updated. I look forward to meeting some peeps. As a side note I been here 6 years so Im not new to the area. Let me know when that thread is up.
- Apr 1, 2006 07:32pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
www.64111clinic.com fam
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www.myspace.com/nrginmotion world community Location: havenhouse KCK/ 64111 Clinic 4 Life
thread is up RIP come on over and I posted a couple of gathering dates too! what's yo schedule like?
