Bulletin Board Archive

Topic: Hip Hop v. Hip Pop.

1. Dec 20, 2007 12:57am by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
   [url=http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/audio/id.3862#comments]Rude Jude takes on Ra The Rugged Man.[/url] What side do you stand on? I'll chime in later...
2. Dec 20, 2007 01:44am by Les...Izmore - "Knowledge Speaks, Wisdom Listens" www.Izmore.com twitter.com/LesIzmoreHOD www.youtube.com/izmoremusic IZMORE/Soul Providers/RRC Location: MIDDLE OF THE MAP
   Kanye West is Hip Hop Middle Of The Map F$%$**
3. Dec 20, 2007 06:48am by Skillaimbeer - "I like my beats harder than two-day old shit" -Phife
   Although RA kind of showed his ass by being on his usual New York-centric tip ("I don't want fans who don't know who G Rap is"), Rude Jude riding for Hammer isn't really a good look at all. Comparing Hammer's impact and artistic mission to those of NWA and Luke/2 Live Crew? You can ride for your own tastes, but saying Hammer was "hard" and had a long-lasting impact on pop culture is far from the truth. Other than that, this "discussion" is just too much pointless arguing from two dudes who don't really have anything particularly enlightening to add to a discussion that has been going on for 'bout 20 years now. Music is music, people like what they like, and let's leave it at that. I am not sure yet how Kanye fits into this discussion. Dude is obviously knee deep in the pop culture zeitgeist, and his tracks have mass appeal, but I don't think he is on a dance music/Hammer-esque wagon completely. That being said, I don't really enjoy his music all that much. For example, I dug "Can't Tell Me Nothing," but "Stronger" grated on me. The same goes for his previous releases and singles. I think that he is undoubtedly more talented in many ways than someone like Hammer or Rob Van Winkle, but the way he so obviously (and, at times, desperately) courts the mainstream is somewhat suspect. Time will tell if his legend is comparable to that of Hammer or that of someone on the level of a Jay-Z, Biggie, Ice Cube, ect. This all being said, the second tape I ever bought with my own money was "Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em." I guess I'm showing my own ass now... 😯 Thanks for posting this, Reach.
4. Dec 20, 2007 09:22am by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
   Ra's eyes must be brown. These rigid standards for what constitutes Hip Hop and what doesn't are baseless and really don't count for much. If ANYTHING isn't Hip Hop it's THAT. Hammer's is every bit as much Hip Hop as Ra... Rakim that is. I don't know that Hammer was ever hard, but that doesn't much matter to me. "Let's Get It Started" was the first tape I ever owned. And, no, that's not the voice of bias speaking. I happened to like Hammer at one time, but to pretend that somehow he doesn't meet these stringent standards for what a Hip Hop artist is...to be disingenuous. Too Short wasn't exactly eloquent. Or lyrical for that matter... But no one would ever question his legacy or how significant he's been to the culture. That's such a porous standard it should never be employed in this kind of discussion. I side with Jude. Ra's East Coast bias is problematic and troublesome. Hip Hop IS Pop on certain levels. There's a deeper underlying culture, but the same is true of any form of music. Kanye needs no apologists. Dude is DOPE. You'll have trouble finding an artist with a better opening three albums not named Nas or Jay-Z. Ye isn't making pure dance music. He's distinguished himself as an emcee. Love that or hate it. He won't be appreciated for a while, but in the end his legacy will be virtually impossible to argue with...
5. Dec 20, 2007 12:08pm by theskinny
   [quote:b192eff2a3="Reach."]Ra's eyes must be brown. These rigid standards for what constitutes Hip Hop and what doesn't are baseless and really don't count for much. If ANYTHING isn't Hip Hop it's THAT. Hammer's is every bit as much Hip Hop as Ra... Rakim that is. I don't know that Hammer was ever hard, but that doesn't much matter to me. "Let's Get It Started" was the first tape I ever owned. And, no, that's not the voice of bias speaking. I happened to like Hammer at one time, but to pretend that somehow he doesn't meet these stringent standards for what a Hip Hop artist is...to be disingenuous. Too Short wasn't exactly eloquent. Or lyrical for that matter... But no one would ever question his legacy or how significant he's been to the culture. That's such a porous standard it should never be employed in this kind of discussion. I side with Jude. Ra's East Coast bias is problematic and troublesome. Hip Hop IS pop on certain levels. There's a deeper underlying culture, but the same is true of any form of music. Kanye needs no apologists. Dude is DOPE. You'll have trouble finding an artist with a better opening three albums not named Nas or Jay-Z. Ye isn't making pure dance music. He's distinguished himself as an emcee. Love that or hate it. He won't be appreciated for a while, but in the end his legacy will be virtually impossible to argue with...[/quote:b192eff2a3] co-sign. i dont expect kids in New York to know who Rich the Factor is, they shouldnt expect me to know who God Earth Cipher Divine Son Dun local rapper that grew up on! for real
6. Dec 20, 2007 02:51pm by DR.T - nuts .. haha Location: KCMO
   😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 This argument cracks me up. RA is a knucklehead, RA invented hip hop .... right? Get outta hear!!!! MC Hammer was dope when he was doing his thing, and im from the 90s .... Kanye is dope too, he makes hiphop. Just because someone blows up and becomes popular, doesn't mean they stop being hip hop.... "Get the east coast dick out ya mouff" - Joe Good
7. Dec 20, 2007 05:45pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
   That's the real problem. It's Kanye's Soundscans. People hate the fact that he's not a street dude and he's selling crazy records. So they get stupid and compare him to artists like Hammer. That's absolutely insane.
8. Dec 20, 2007 07:28pm by DjShad
   ra's mad because he keeps getting passed because he keeps making stupid career moves. He had a hit with biggie but he took a dump on the desk of the A&R at jive back in 1994 and theatned half of their staff. His pissed off the rawkus dudes back in the mid 90's(he had a hot track with ludacris but ra didn't know how to act.) Hammer I have to respect his hustle, anyone that go from selling 12" from the back of the trunk(MC Hammer the hip hop holy ghost) to a major deal thats respect. People may hate, but at least with him money, he was trying to reach back to the oakland community and help people. Plus please hammer just didn't have Can't Touch this(he had tracks with messages i.e. pray, the one that sampled mercy mercy me), it wasnt just all pop rap. Ra fits in like the typical back pack rapper wishing it was 1994 again hes another dude rapping over some wanna be primo beats wishing the golden days would still be around. Its 2008, its time to advance music is going in so many different directions and landscapes, that the usualy pop rap isnt going to make it, the backpack rap isnt going make it and the gold chain d-boy rap isnt going to make it. I'm Happy for songs like sexual eruption, low, anything that goes past 115 bpms. its bringing the fun back in hip hop when people partied, people in the late 80's had dope fast tracks bdk's raw,queen latifah's come into my house, epmd's i'm housing, PE's can't do nothing for ya man. Man and too short had some deep lyrics if you look past the b word, tracks like getting it, the ghetto,money in the hood life is too short, short but funky(where tell people to pay james brown for the samples). If you look deeper into his catalog he had some tracks with positive lyrics. If you look at it hip hop has became the new top 40's and when it fizzed out electronic music will be next, music happens is cycles, im just waiting on grunge to come back peace dj shad do not repost of publish without writen consent from Dj Shad release for press and media e-mail [email protected]
9. Dec 20, 2007 07:49pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
   Short might've had substantive lyrics here and there, but he wasn't dope. He was a below-average emcee. The point I was trying to make is that talent doesn't determine one's worth to the culture. It can't. If it could...We'd have to get a pen out and start crossing names off.
10. Dec 20, 2007 10:39pm by DR.T - nuts .. haha Location: KCMO
    [size=24:abee72d61d]!!!!!NEW OFFICIAL HIP HOP RULE!!!!![/size:abee72d61d] "If you ain't from a the streets...you ain't really hip hop" 😆 "I had a good childhood so they wanna take my black away, I ain't from the hood so they wanna take my rap away" - D/Wiil
11. Dec 20, 2007 11:30pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    I know, right? That's some silly shit. Ra should've slapped himself for saying that nonsense.
12. Dec 21, 2007 06:29am by AceFadal - [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]~means To learn by doing www.dipity.com/acefadal WE ARE, Kansas City is [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]! http://crushproofstudio.bandcamp.com/ Location: Downtown, Kansas City, Mo.
    Its actually called Pop Hop. Coined by yours truly, (thank you very much.) About the time DMX started getting play, was when i started saying that. People hated on me cause I wasn't listening to Outkast, when they came out. I didn't listen to anything played on 103.3 or any other station for that matter. I still don't listen to the radio, and have no idea about any of the songs listed on, the most Infuriating Songs of 2007 post. I feel kind of out of the "loop" but at the same time I am glad none of those songs, that are supposed to bite, never run through my mind. RA is saying the same thing that Lords of the Underground, Helter Skelter, and Das Efx have said. and alot of what he said is true. Hammer [u:018a5c1ffb]was[/u:018a5c1ffb] Pop Hop. Kanye [u:018a5c1ffb]is[/u:018a5c1ffb] Pop Hop. (commercialism) RA is underground and might always be.(raw, rugged) but then what is Wyclef Jean? What is P.M. Dawn? Why the f**k did everybody sleep on Company Flow? They are all Hip Hop. Underground Hip Hop is just the rawest and purest. Its got "heart". But emcees get big and lose the "Heart", (DMX, Eminem, Ice Cube, sh*t look at Mobb Deep) and just (get pressured) try to move units, instead of staying focused on their craft. I would rather listen to all of R.A.'s music before I listen to another Hammer song or any of Kanye's. (i pretty much know what Kanye is going to say already, the same thing he has been, people like R.A. keep you like a midget in a urinal. Its evident that styles that become new, and are practiced and developed underground. its always been that way. This is another reason people say Hip Hop is dying. They feel like if it aint on MTV or BET, it aint hype. [quote:018a5c1ffb]Pop Music in all technicality means POPULAR music, so in that aspect of course Kanye is Pop Music. It's a hard arguement to boil down and it probably woulda been better if contested by different people. The problem nowadays seems to be that everything has a definition: Southern Hip Hop, East Coast Hip Hop, West Coast, Snap Music, and the list goes on: back in the day when this all started Hip Hop didnt have those different categories. Now obviously we're not gonna put Aye Ba Ba beside any legit hip hop and call them the same, but it's going to be hard, especially as time goes on, to put a stick on what is and whats not hip hop, especially when everyone has their own opinions on the matter.[/quote:018a5c1ffb] R.A. wins this arguement, and any artist that just wants to get paid will disagree. Most of the greatest music is underground, and underrated, and will never be heard. Just like most of the Pop Hop played gets too much play. Parties, clubs, Radio, bars, you name it. on that note. [quote:018a5c1ffb]Aesop Rock...To admit Hip Hop is dead, is to admit that it was a fad or trend. Whenever whats underground goes pop, the underground changes or transforms." artist lose a lot of heart and creativity when they get "big" [/quote:018a5c1ffb] (kind of like street slang, nobody says, "Yo! Cold Chillin! anymore It revolves [quote:018a5c1ffb] "People get famous on accident all the time, so celebrity is dead," Aesop Rock says. "I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of being famous. The part that rubs me the wrong way is when something is popular and people start aiming for that in order to get popular. If you ask me, that's where it starts to get silly."...Aesop [/quote:018a5c1ffb] Advisory, explicit material.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98CwfJ7mdeA http://www.underworldhiphop.net/mp3/123/video.php Both vids on the second site are dope! [quote:018a5c1ffb]"I aint Hip Hop. I'm Music and Hip Hop lives inside me, right next to the funk and Soul. No one word can hold me, let alone define me." Ace Fadal [/quote:018a5c1ffb] "All music must obey me"...ODB r.i.p. peas
13. Dec 21, 2007 09:55am by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    [quote:4b794ce36a="AceFadal"]Its actually called Pop Hop.[/quote:4b794ce36a] The term "Popular Hip Hop" isn't exactly derogatory... Nor does it take anything away from Kanye's artistic value. [quote:4b794ce36a]Hammer [u:4b794ce36a]was[/u:4b794ce36a] Pop Hop. Kanye [u:4b794ce36a]is[/u:4b794ce36a] Pop Hop. (commercialism)[/quote:4b794ce36a] Then so are many of Ra's heroes. This is a piss poor argument. It really is. It's vitriol coming from someone who thinks Kanye can't be a poster boy in Hip Hop culture. And that's not driven by some need to keep the artform pure. It's misguided machismo. [quote:4b794ce36a]They are all Hip Hop. Underground Hip Hop is just the rawest and purest.[/quote:4b794ce36a] How does one come to that conclusion? Kanye's a better representation of yesteryear than any Top 40 artist I can name. The spirit of his predecessors is evident in his music. [quote:4b794ce36a]I would rather listen to all of R.A.'s music before I listen to another Hammer song or any of Kanye's.[/quote:4b794ce36a] That's a personal choice... One I respect, but in the end Kanye's legacy will be 1000 times larger than Ra's...That's what really gets under his skin. [quote:4b794ce36a]R.A. wins this arguement, and any artist that just wants to get paid will disagree.[/quote:4b794ce36a] Caught me red-handed. And I thought I put all this time in because I loved the music... Hip Hop doesn't need apologists. It doesn't need conservatives. The days of defining what it is and isn't are over. You're stuck in a time warp even trying to make such distinctions.
14. Dec 21, 2007 03:12pm by AceFadal - [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]~means To learn by doing www.dipity.com/acefadal WE ARE, Kansas City is [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]! http://crushproofstudio.bandcamp.com/ Location: Downtown, Kansas City, Mo.
    [quote:dc7e0ebba8="Reach."][quote:dc7e0ebba8="AceFadal"]Its actually called Pop Hop.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] The term "Popular Hip Hop" isn't exactly derogatory... Nor does it take anything away from Kanye's artistic value. [/quote:dc7e0ebba8] Pop Hop itself is derogatory to Hip Hop. Turn of that radio turn of that bullSh*t! In the sense that most of it entitles an artist to sell out, if they haven't already. It also usually means an artists is following trends and doing what every one likes, instead of creating something fresh, new, or original. what everyone wants to hear, is usually something that is being heard. I wouldn't call Danger Mouse "pop" because of Gnarls Barkley, because people don't know who Cee-Lo Green is. understand? Its as simple as people who were listening to Elvis, calling it the new sound, and when real Rock heads were listening to the Ramones and Chuck Berry. [quote:dc7e0ebba8]It's vitriol coming from someone who thinks Kanye can't be a poster boy in Hip Hop culture. And that's not driven by some need to keep the artform pure. It's misguided machismo.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] this is only part true. I just don't see what the big deal is. [quote:dc7e0ebba8]They are all Hip Hop. Underground Hip Hop is just the rawest and purest.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] [quote:dc7e0ebba8]How does one come to that conclusion?[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] ha ha? SP Crew maybe? uhh have you heard Les Izmore's or this dude named Reach's, album? so raw, so hip hop, more than kanye will ever be, uh real talk. deny it? but fo real... uhh. PM freakin DAWN! Thats how! They got mad play on the radio. C&C music factory, Snow, rip van penis wrinkle (vanilla ice). i could go on and on about "rap acts" that came out and "revolutionize" rap. I could go on about how many of people on this spot, once owned a cd of one of the artist i just named and would deny it. [quote:dc7e0ebba8]Kanye's a better representation of yesteryear than any Top 40 artist I can name. The spirit of his predecessors is evident in his music.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] I can agree with this. However in my opinion, he hasn't focused on his production, and has taken a step backwards as far as production. Amy Winehouse is Par with Kanye then. (I mean come on, He sampled Micheal Jackson, thats almost like cheating.(Whos not gonna groove to PYT??)) His production quality on Dropout or even Late registration, was great. Hes just let me down. and he so vain.:( [quote:dc7e0ebba8][quote:dc7e0ebba8]I would rather listen to all of R.A.'s music before I listen to another Hammer song or any of Kanye's.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] That's a personal choice... One I respect, but in the end Kanye's legacy will be 1000 times larger than Ra's...That's what really gets under his skin.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] and larger than Vast Aire's whole career (another emcee whose fallin off) i will defend to the death. [quote][quote:dc7e0ebba8]R.A. wins this arguement, and any artist that just wants to get paid will disagree. Caught me red-handed. And I thought I put all this time in because I loved the music...[/qoute][/quote:dc7e0ebba8] I know if anybody is paper chasin its you Reach! Thats all you care about. jk no but for real.. I was saying that he won the general argument on the interview. RA was right. What i mean though is that people tend to think that just cause its getting played on the radio its good music, in that way yes! I think that "popular" artist tend become more with soundscan numbers. The guy was basically trying to say that RA dont even have the status that Hammer had, or worse. Somebody right now is having this same discussion on another forum about T-Pain, Tupac, and Biggie. I've gone on about how much disliked Tupac. Because his words still ring in the mouths of little wanna be thugs, his music had very little positive and a longer lasting negative message. Thats my beef! [quote:dc7e0ebba8]Hip Hop doesn't need apologists. It doesn't need conservatives. The days of defining what it is and isn't are over. You're stuck in a time warp even trying to make such distinctions.[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] I'm stuck in the, "I cant understand how you have that position and don't do more for what you love or its (Hip Hop) people. Kanye thinks hes Hip Hops savior. But hes not even a Jesse Jackson. I just wish pop-hop was positive. It never has been, though. and thats why I've never listened to the radio. except for massive Mondays on KKFI way back when....'91. I guess thats why i can respect rugged man more. I know what hes going to say, and trying to say. I don't understand Kanye. My frustration may be a result of MC Breed not getting recognition for his talent, because Kriss Kross had a similar sample and a "gimmick" (cute little f**krs), so Breed missed out. Or maybe I hate the fact that my 9 year olds favorite song is Lil' Jons "to the windows to the walls" ish. That song is a horrible thing for a child to know. and he didn't hear that garbage in my house! [quote:dc7e0ebba8]If real niggaz is listening, the life we living in, is wrong (Witty Wu-Tang is unpredictable, Witty Wu-Tang is unpredictable) Back for transitions, to save us from harm We in the race for time... so we won't lose our mind But if we run the race like a thug We would lose that mind that we made of **Wu-Tang Clan *8 Diagrams* **Unpredictable**[/quote:dc7e0ebba8] ps i am a little confused. You know my cd rotation Reach. But I will gladly trade my Reach cd for Kanyes new album, if someone wants, so I can listen. [size=24:dc7e0ebba8]NOT![/size:dc7e0ebba8]
15. Dec 21, 2007 05:41pm by Blam Location: Kansas City, MO
    Biggie said RA was one of the iLLest. my opinion will not be expressed about this topic.
16. Dec 21, 2007 06:02pm by phism
    [quote:8e81a4a88e="AceFadal"]Its actually called Pop Hop.[/quote:8e81a4a88e] [img:8e81a4a88e]http://library.huttcity.govt.nz/Kids/Great_Reads/Recommended/images/HoponPop.jpg[/img:8e81a4a88e] i'm not reading any of this thread.
17. Dec 21, 2007 10:40pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    [quote:8f8b6af551="AceFadal"]Pop Hop itself is derogatory to Hip Hop. Turn of that radio turn of that bullSh*t![/quote:8f8b6af551] Radio burn doesn't exactly mean you aren't making good music. Let's not go off the deep end Ace. [quote:8f8b6af551]In the sense that most of it entitles an artist to sell out, if they haven't already. It also usually means an artists is following trends and doing what every one likes, instead of creating something fresh, new, or original.[/quote:8f8b6af551] Fresh, new, and original is overrated. Not completely insignificant. Just overvalued in Rap music. Rap's been around for more than 30 years now. There aren't many avenues that haven't been explored already. I don't necessarily need to hear something completely unheard previously. I just want to know that you're reframing it in such a way that you have artistic merit of your own. Kanye isn't a trendy artist. In fact, he's seeing commercial success at a time where the average Rap artist sounds nothing like him. [quote:8f8b6af551]what everyone wants to hear, is usually something that is being heard. I wouldn't call Danger Mouse "pop" because of Gnarls Barkley, because people don't know who Cee-Lo Green is. understand?[/quote:8f8b6af551] Can't say that I do... Cee Lo wasn't a crossover artist prior to "Crazy", but what exactly does that mean? How does that have any bearing on his artistic merit? [quote:8f8b6af551]Its as simple as people who were listening to Elvis, calling it the new sound, and when real Rock heads were listening to the Ramones and Chuck Berry.[/quote:8f8b6af551] I've heard that argument used time and again. And while I'm on board... It doesn't apply to Kanye West. He's not some cheap knockoff of another artist. [quote:8f8b6af551]ha ha? SP Crew maybe? uhh have you heard Les Izmore's or this dude named Reach's, album? so raw, so hip hop, more than kanye will ever be, uh real talk. deny it?[/quote:8f8b6af551] I don't bother with scales. I do Rap music the best way I can...the way I see fit. [quote:8f8b6af551]but fo real... uhh. PM freakin DAWN! Thats how! They got mad play on the radio. C&C music factory, Snow, rip van penis wrinkle (vanilla ice). i could go on and on about "rap acts" that came out and "revolutionize" rap. I could go on about how many of people on this spot, once owned a cd of one of the artist i just named and would deny it.[/quote:8f8b6af551] None of those acts were ever critically lauded. None of them were even taken seriously... None of them were still ascending by their junior album projects (if they got that far at all). This is apples and oranges entirely. C&C Music Factory wasn't a Rap act and you know it. Ra knew that when he said it. He played himself. Comparing Kanye to Snow is like comparing Will Perdue to Bob Cousy. It's ridiculous. [quote:8f8b6af551]I can agree with this. However in my opinion, he hasn't focused on his production, and has taken a step backwards as far as production. Amy Winehouse is Par with Kanye then.[/quote:8f8b6af551] I can't say that I agree... She's talented. But she isn't as proven a commodity as Kanye. Come talk to me after another 2 albums. [quote:8f8b6af551]His production quality on Dropout or even Late registration, was great. Hes just let me down. and he so vain.:([/quote:8f8b6af551] He's no different than a dozen of your other favorite rappers. [quote:8f8b6af551]I know if anybody is paper chasin its you Reach! Thats all you care about. jk no but for real.. I was saying that he won the general argument on the interview. RA was right.[/quote:8f8b6af551] We can agree to disagree. I think RJ called him on his bias. [quote:8f8b6af551]The guy was basically trying to say that RA dont even have the status that Hammer had, or worse. Somebody right now is having this same discussion on another forum about T-Pain, Tupac, and Biggie.[/quote:8f8b6af551] Who? Not even the young cats would bother mentioning Teddy Pender (can't believe I just called him that) in the same breath as Tupac and Biggie. I know... I'm a member at a Rap forum filled with younger cats. [quote:8f8b6af551]Kanye thinks hes Hip Hops savior. But hes not even a Jesse Jackson.[/quote:8f8b6af551] Kanye's done a lot for the culture. I call him the "Great Equalizer". He lent credibility to artists that would never have gotten a "mainstream" second look otherwise (Common, Kweli). His brand of honesty does more for so-called underground Rap than anything underground rappers are doing. Because essentially he brings many of the same themes to the table in his material. He's made more honest, self-deprecating, blue collar Rap the "thing" to do. Good, bad or indifferent... You gotta give him credit. [quote:8f8b6af551]Or maybe I hate the fact that my 9 year olds favorite song is Lil' Jons "to the windows to the walls" ish. That song is a horrible thing for a child to know. and he didn't hear that garbage in my house![/quote:8f8b6af551] Name your favorite rapper and I can almost guarantee you that I could find something just as degenerative in their music. [quote:8f8b6af551]If real niggaz is listening, the life we living in, is wrong (Witty Wu-Tang is unpredictable, Witty Wu-Tang is unpredictable) Back for transitions, to save us from harm We in the race for time... so we won't lose our mind But if we run the race like a thug We would lose that mind that we made of **Wu-Tang Clan *8 Diagrams* **Unpredictable**[/quote:8f8b6af551] [Method Man] Ain't no shook in 'em, Pyrex pots is hot, fiends is cooking 'em Little niggaz hugging the block, cops is booking 'em Women hugging they purse when they spot the crook in 'em Back when little J got shot, pops was whooping 'em Little noses dripping with snot, ock, now look at 'em The ghetto got a hook in 'em now, drugs, stay pushing 'em Used to throwing dirt in these blunts, now, it's kush in 'em Used to tell these chicks to shut up, now, he's shooshing 'em Get cash, get that ass, or put a foot in 'em Iron Flag, flag that cab, Bedford and Put-e-nam There ain't no puss in 'em, dick, dildo, or gush in 'em Niggaz still got that juks in 'em [Chorus 2X: Ghostface Killah (Raekwon)] If he front then we stomp 'em out (Get 'em out ya way pa) If he drunk and he run his mouth (Get 'em out ya way pa) If he front then we stomp 'em out (Get 'em out ya way pa) (Get 'em out ya way pa, move, move, move) Taken from the same album. [quote:8f8b6af551]ps i am a little confused. You know my cd rotation Reach. But I will gladly trade my Reach cd for Kanyes new album, if someone wants, so I can listen.[/quote:8f8b6af551] You're criticizing Ye and you haven't even heard the album? UGH... By the way... Don't offer my album up as the sacrificial lamb. Surely you got some Liza Minnelli or something!!!
18. Dec 22, 2007 06:21am by AceFadal - [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]~means To learn by doing www.dipity.com/acefadal WE ARE, Kansas City is [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]! http://crushproofstudio.bandcamp.com/ Location: Downtown, Kansas City, Mo.
    I would never give your cd up its too dope! I understand all of that! I have never looked at it that way though. I always believed if I didn't listen, i wasn't missing out, or peeping in. [quote:d449d927d9]Kanye's done a lot for the culture. I call him the "Great Equalizer". He lent credibility to artists that would never have gotten a "mainstream" second look otherwise (Common, Kweli). His brand of honesty does more for so-called underground Rap than anything underground rappers are doing. Because essentially he brings many of the same themes to the table in his material. He's made more honest, self-deprecating, blue collar Rap the "thing" to do. Good, bad or indifferent... You gotta give him credit. [/quote:d449d927d9] and this was my original beef. If he would be that Kanye that put forth talent. There are too many rapper/producers. Pick one and polish that. Kanye can rap, but hes a better producer. So i have a problem when he starts crying about not getting a grammy. and I'm not giving uo the Liza! i do have some beach boys I would trade tho. Peace! Thank you for being a positive roll model and influence for hip Hop heads. I, for one, am personally truly glad, that I know someone like you and your crew. you do what is needed for Hip Hop. and I hope the rest of the world can feel, see, and expeirience what I do when I listen to the SP. Hopefully Kanye will take anote from someone like you and teach instead of preach.
19. Dec 22, 2007 09:55am by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    Pick his new album up Ace. And really listen to it. I think you just might change your mind. Thanks for the kind words though...
20. Dec 22, 2007 10:47pm by Sku - I knocked up the turntables and gave birth to phat stylez! http://www.myspace.com/djsku Location: KC
    What in the FUCK are you guys even arguing about?????????? I can't believe I even read all this.... Kanye's album is TIGHT!!! Shutup already.
21. Dec 23, 2007 12:54am by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
    [quote:80f02b1df1="DjShad"]ra's mad because he keeps getting passed because he keeps making stupid career moves. He had a hit with biggie but he took a dump on the desk of the A&R at jive back in 1994 and theatned half of their staff. His pissed off the rawkus dudes back in the mid 90's(he had a hot track with ludacris but ra didn't know how to act.) Hammer I have to respect his hustle, anyone that go from selling 12" from the back of the trunk(MC Hammer the hip hop holy ghost) to a major deal thats respect. People may hate, but at least with him money, he was trying to reach back to the oakland community and help people. Plus please hammer just didn't have Can't Touch this(he had tracks with messages i.e. pray, the one that sampled mercy mercy me), it wasnt just all pop rap. Ra fits in like the typical back pack rapper wishing it was 1994 again hes another dude rapping over some wanna be primo beats wishing the golden days would still be around. Its 2008, its time to advance music is going in so many different directions and landscapes, that the usualy pop rap isnt going to make it, the backpack rap isnt going make it and the gold chain d-boy rap isnt going to make it. I'm Happy for songs like sexual eruption, low, anything that goes past 115 bpms. its bringing the fun back in hip hop when people partied, people in the late 80's had dope fast tracks bdk's raw,queen latifah's come into my house, epmd's i'm housing, PE's can't do nothing for ya man. Man and too short had some deep lyrics if you look past the b word, tracks like getting it, the ghetto,money in the hood life is too short, short but funky(where tell people to pay james brown for the samples). If you look deeper into his catalog he had some tracks with positive lyrics. If you look at it hip hop has became the new top 40's and when it fizzed out electronic music will be next, music happens is cycles, im just waiting on grunge to come back peace dj shad do not repost of publish without writen consent from Dj Shad release for press and media e-mail [email protected][/quote:80f02b1df1] SHAD IS AWESOME. I LOVE IT
22. Dec 23, 2007 12:54am by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
    [quote:9f6c8c4ea5="Sku"]What in the FUCK are you guys even arguing about?????????? I can't believe I even read all this.... Kanye's album is TIGHT!!! Shutup already.[/quote:9f6c8c4ea5]\ SO IS SKU
23. Dec 27, 2007 05:36am by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society." -CLR James
    I don't know if I've ever read better polemic on hip-hop than I just have with Reach. It wasn't mere informed commentary, it was a very concrete and all-encompassing appraisal of hip-hop from a highly critical perspective. I was just reading Lenin tear into the opportunists of German Social Democracy. How complementary! Reach, when are you going to write for Democracy and Hip-Hop? I appreciate Shad's commentary as well. You have a profound connection to hip-hop and an encyclopaedic knowledge of its peculiarities which says much about what ordinary people are striving to become. You have a rep which speaks for itself in this forum, but while you may not have the distinction of being a nationally recognized authority, you make a mockery of those who hold such regard as they lean on titles and not "profound connections" such as you have. There is not much I can add to this discussion as Shad and Reach have filled out the content sufficiently. I will attempt to add a dose of historical significance to this discussion, if you will. I believe that it is precisely the conflict which is happening in this thread and which Ace rightly points to as taking place in every other forum that is the motor force of hip-hop itself. Hip-hop, like all previous music forms, changes and develops through the conflicts between the old and the new, the mainstream and the obscure, etc. As Shad and Reach have already indicated, it isn't a matter of locating the side of hip-hop that is pure or true, [i:e8e7ada0db]but nor is it an academic matter of placing it in pluralistic and arbitrary categories (hip-pop) that never move and were always there (gangsta, bling, east, west, crunk, screwed).[/i:e8e7ada0db] The essence of the matter is, and I put this in boldface if you please, [b:e8e7ada0db]how do the categories, the genres, the regional varieties, move and change?[/b:e8e7ada0db] [i:e8e7ada0db]It moves and changes not only because it is its nature to do so, it changes due to the agency and activity of masses of people.[/i:e8e7ada0db] Hip-hop cannot have the worldwide Reach it has without the participation of multitudes. As such, the activities of these multitudes is transmitted into popular avenues of expression (hip-hop) (at this time I make no distinction between mainstream and underground as it is superfluous). Precisely when this en masse activity changes, new categories manifest in order to more accurately express such a shift. Bearing this in mind, how did Gangsta Rap become Bling Rap? Why did the conflict between the East and the West result in the No Limit of New Orleans? How has Rap about the poverty of ordinary people (The Message) become the thug who embraces it (N.W.A.), while the principled and organized Mafioso (Jay-Z) (apparently) rises above it? In what way is Kanye a synthesis of these categories reposited in an organic whole? How does he express the contradiction of these three poles? Finally, what does this say about the world we live in today? Why is it that we feel this conversation is important and why is it happening all over the world? This has tremendous implications for our level of civilization today, but it conversely signals civilization's decay. Hip-hop is such a universal organism, more universal and all-embracing than its Blues, Jazz, and Rock predecessors (which it inherits, just like bling inherits gangsta). And the only reason our music is reaching for such universality is because WE as a people are reaching for universality in our daily productive lives; in our jobs, schools, communities, etc., a universality in society where people are completely free and which they collectively control, a universality that is impossible to achieve in our present-day world as it is currently organized. But this doesn't mean that Hip-hop is a sectarian propaganda tool to be used to spread Maoism to the ghetto (Dead Prez). It is a signal of the thoughts, values, and aspirations of regular people and an indication of the present-day struggles both intellectually and materially. It is an indication also of what is to come...socialism or barbarism...the emancipation of working people from the capital/labor relation or the complete and resolute destruction of society as we know it. [b:e8e7ada0db]And unless we are relating the fate of hip-hop to the fate of humanity [i:e8e7ada0db](the way Ace, Shad, and Reach are doing), [/i:e8e7ada0db]my friends, we are no better than academics and bourgie intellectuals.[/b:e8e7ada0db]
24. Dec 27, 2007 04:12pm by NRG - livin the art that is life ! www.64111clinic.com fam www.nrginmotion.com massage www.myspace.com/nrginmotion world community Location: havenhouse KCK/ 64111 Clinic 4 Life
    [quote:74a6288ad9]And unless we are relating the fate of hip-hop to the fate of humanity (the way Ace, Shad, and Reach are doing), my friends, we are no better than academics and bourgie intellectuals. [/quote:74a6288ad9] Hey Krisna, good to see you here. Hope its going well in your world and thank you for senergy of this comment. I plan on quoting you shad ace and reach throughout 2008 when it come to a broader view of art expressing life. peace nrg
25. Dec 27, 2007 04:29pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    As always KB... Great work. By the way, I'd be honored to write for DFHH.
26. Dec 27, 2007 09:12pm by maclethal
    [quote:734d391fc6="Sku"] Kanye's album is TIGHT!!! Shutup already.[/quote:734d391fc6] That sums up 2007. Kanye's record is great in my opinion. If you don't like it, then don't listen to it. If you do like it, well, do listen to it. Music critics remind me of food critics. Fools argue and debate whether or not something tastes good, or tastes like it should taste or whatever. But um, if I like a cheeseburger, I'm probably gonna eat the damn thing. Regardless of what someone else's opinion of it is. Same thing with music critics. You can write thousands of reviews telling me that ARCADE FIRE makes great music, and put out the best record in 2007. But when I listen to it, and hate it. Your opinions mean nothing. Kanye is dope. Shut up already.
27. Dec 27, 2007 09:48pm by theskinny
    [quote:5370c8b509="Blam"]Biggie said RA was one of the iLLest. my opinion will not be expressed about this topic.[/quote:5370c8b509] theres an interview with biggie that says otherwise ahhahah infact i believe the quote was "the white boy? i did it for the paper!" rap/hip-hop/pop-rap/street/suburban none of this has anything to do with actual music hammer was from east oakland and mad some music that appealled to more than people who live in east oakland. gets hated. kanye is from a black southside middle class neighborhood, and raps over some euro dance music and sells a million, gets hated. its stupid. i hate rap and its fans most times.
28. Dec 30, 2007 02:13pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    Ra has a legitimate argument. Just not with Kanye.
29. Dec 30, 2007 11:33pm by AceFadal - [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]~means To learn by doing www.dipity.com/acefadal WE ARE, Kansas City is [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]! http://crushproofstudio.bandcamp.com/ Location: Downtown, Kansas City, Mo.
    [quote:b9ad6eba44="Reach."]Ra has a legitimate argument. Just not with Kanye.[/quote:b9ad6eba44] This is all of what I was trying to say. (I need to stopp typing and do all post DR.T rant style. However, I must have missed it. Because I did not actually hear R.A. directly diss Kanye. I felt like he was using him as an example.
30. Dec 31, 2007 07:07am by Reach. - Peace and oneness, www.emceereach.com www.myspace.com/reach www.twitter.com/emceereach www.youtube.com/reachtv www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic2 www.cdbaby.com/cd/reachmusic Location: Kansas City
    [quote:08dc795f1e="AceFadal"][quote:08dc795f1e="Reach."]Ra has a legitimate argument. Just not with Kanye.[/quote:08dc795f1e] This is all of what I was trying to say. (I need to stopp typing and do all post DR.T rant style. However, I must have missed it. Because I did not actually hear R.A. directly diss Kanye. I felt like he was using him as an example.[/quote:08dc795f1e][list:08dc795f1e] He implied that Kanye isn't making Hip Hop music. I can see someone taking offense to that. [/list:u:08dc795f1e]
31. Dec 31, 2007 03:38pm by _DEMENCHA_
    Who is or isn't making hip hop music... This kind of shit reminds me of when I went to the pitch music awards show this past summer at the Uptown. Some band won "best punk band" or something to that effect, and one deranged crowd member stood up and yelled repeatedly throughout the theater while the band went to stage to accept their award, "YOU'RE NOT PUNK!!! YOU'RE NOT PUNK!!!" fuck all that noise.
32. Dec 31, 2007 06:28pm by swayzorbladez - www.myspace.com/swayzorspitsbladez
    [quote:101fa10d9e="_DEMENCHA_"]Who is or isn't making hip hop music... This kind of shit reminds me of when I went to the pitch music awards show this past summer at the Uptown. Some band won "best punk band" or something to that effect, and one deranged crowd member stood up and yelled repeatedly throughout the theater while the band went to stage to accept their award, "YOU'RE NOT PUNK!!! YOU'RE NOT PUNK!!!" fuck all that noise.[/quote:101fa10d9e] yeah it gets tiresome every genre has their own High and Mighty's
33. Dec 31, 2007 07:33pm by AceFadal - [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]~means To learn by doing www.dipity.com/acefadal WE ARE, Kansas City is [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]! http://crushproofstudio.bandcamp.com/ Location: Downtown, Kansas City, Mo.
    [quote:139e1f1037="swayzorbladez"][quote:139e1f1037="_DEMENCHA_"]Who is or isn't making hip hop music... This kind of shit reminds me of when I went to the pitch music awards show this past summer at the Uptown. Some band won "best punk band" or something to that effect, and one deranged crowd member stood up and yelled repeatedly throughout the theater while the band went to stage to accept their award, "YOU'RE NOT PUNK!!! YOU'RE NOT PUNK!!!" fuck all that noise.[/quote:139e1f1037] yeah it gets tiresome every genre has their own High and Mighty's[/quote:139e1f1037] I've been told, that I have some music that doesn't have a genre.