Topic: ‘That’s so gay’ prompts student lawsuit ( your thought
- Mar 1, 2007 10:20pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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Student sent to principal’s office insists it was not a homophobic putdown
SANTA ROSA, Calif. - When a few classmates razzed Rebekah Rice about her Mormon upbringing with questions such as, "Do you have 10 moms?" she shot back: "That's so gay."
Those three words landed the high school freshman in the principal's office and resulted in a lawsuit that raises this question: When do playground insults used every day all over America cross the line into hate speech that must be stamped out?
After Rice got a warning and a notation in her file, her parents sued, claiming officials at Santa Rosa's Maria Carillo High violated their daughter's First Amendment rights when they disciplined her for uttering a phrase "which enjoys widespread currency in youth culture," according to court documents.
Testifying last week about the 2002 incident, Rice, now 18, said that when she uttered those words, she was not referring to anyone's sexual orientation. She said the phrase meant: "That's so stupid, that's so silly, that's so dumb."
But school officials say they took a strict stand against the putdown after two boys were paid to beat up a gay student the year before.
"The district has a statutory duty to protect gay students from harassment," the district's lawyers argued in a legal brief. "In furtherance of this goal, prohibition of the phrase 'That's so gay' ... was a reasonable regulation."
Superior Court Judge Elaine Rushing plans to issue a ruling in the non-jury trial after final written arguments are submitted in April. Her gag order prevents the two sides from discussing the case.
[b:e0280ab45a]A confusing set of terms[/b:e0280ab45a]
Derogatory terms for homosexuality have long been used as insults. But the landscape has become confusing in recent years as minority groups have tried to reclaim terms like "queer," "ghetto" and the n-word.
In recent years, gay rights advocates and educators have tried teaching students that it is hurtful to use the word "gay" as an all-purpose term for something disagreeable. At Berkeley High School, a gay student club passed out buttons with the words "That's so gay" crossed out to get their classmates to stop using them.
Rick Ayers, a retired teacher who helped compile and publish the "Berkeley High School Slang Dictionary," a compendium of trendy teen talk circa 2001, said educating students about offensive language is preferable to policing their speech.
"I wouldn't be surprised if this girl didn't even know the origin of that term," he said. "The kids who get caught saying it will claim it's been decontextualized, but others will say, `No, you know what that means.' It's quite talked about."
Rice's parents, Elden and Katherine Rice, also claim the public high school employed a double-standard because, they say, administrators never sought to shield Rebekah from teasing based on Mormon stereotypes.
[b:e0280ab45a]Daughter singled out, parents say[/b:e0280ab45a]
In addition, the Rices say their daughter was singled out because of the family's conservative views on sexuality. They are seeking unspecified damages and want the disciplinary notation expunged from Rebekah's school record.
Eliza Byard, deputy executive director of the New York-based Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, said nearly nine out of 10 gay students her organization surveyed in 2005 reported hearing "That's so gay" or "You're so gay" frequently.
"It bothers them a lot," Byard said. "As odd or funny as the phrase sounds, imagine what it feels like to be in a setting where you consistently hear it used to describe something undesirable or stupid, and it also refers to you."
She said it is OK to discipline students for using the phrase after efforts have been made to educate them.
"The job of a school is to deal proactively and consistently with all forms of bullying, name-calling and harassment," she said.
Jordan Lorence, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal organization, agreed "That's so gay" carries a negative meaning and said he would not want his children to say it. But he said formal discipline is not the answer.
"Reasonable people should say, `Let's put a stop to this kind of search-and-destroy mission by school officials for everything that is politically incorrect,'" he said.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17388702/?GT1=9145
- Mar 1, 2007 10:51pm by phism
free speech.
i think it's silly to call things gay that are obviously events/attitudes/objects that typically have no actual sexuality. and since i have no negativity towards homosexuals it's more absurd than offensive to associate a whole sexual orientation with general dislike. that being said, sometimes i'll call things "gay" just because that absurdity makes it funny to me as a sort of mockery of its common use... but then when i'm around people that don't think of it that way, who actually use it pejoratively, i do get a little uncomfortable.
still, you can say whatever you want. and you especially have no right to get pissed after you've just been harassing someone about their religion.
my dad was raised mormon, and while i'll be the first to tell you that it is complete bullshit as far as factual basis.. i'll also be the first to tell you that so is every other religion and i saw no notable differences between it and any other religion i've been around.
- Mar 1, 2007 11:19pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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Talk about a knee-jerk reaction.
It's quite obvious that "gay" in this application has an entirely different connotation than what we commonly associate the term with.
- Mar 1, 2007 11:47pm by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
Good. Make an issue of it. I dont use the term.
- Mar 2, 2007 03:00am by Fur1ous - "She said, 'who the fuck died and made you God?' I said, Jesus"
I think this lawsuit is "gay". Although I don't use the word as frequently as I did in high school, I don't even consider the word in relation to homosexuality. I use it as an adjective to describe something "stupid or ignorant". I'd rather kids call stuff "gay" than witness black youths and adults using the word "nigga" like they don't know any other words. Everyone tries to be so hypersensitive and just in the pursuit of being politically correct while there are real issues going unaddressed.
I smell BULLSHIT and frankly, I don't like it one bit.
- Mar 2, 2007 03:29am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[quote:1e465d51dd] I use it as an adjective to describe something "stupid or ignorant". I'd rather kids call stuff "gay" than witness black youths and adults using the word "nigga" like they don't know any other words. Everyone tries to be so hypersensitive and just in the pursuit of being politically correct while there are real issues going unaddressed. [/quote:1e465d51dd]
yeah but if you were gay would that feel any different to them than it does to you as a black person.
I have had tons of folks tell me that the reason they feel comfortable using "nigga" with each other is that are "takin the word back, ie Changing the meaning for their generationn" I still find this amazing cuz I remember seeing folks mauled my dogs, hit with water hoses, beat with billy clubs and more so that that word would no longer be used to reduce the sum of a black person to the level of non personage.
no issue, I'm just saying what's the difference?
- Mar 2, 2007 04:31pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
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From Webster's
Main Entry: 1gay
Pronunciation: 'gA
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French gai, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gAhi quick, sudden
1 a : happily excited : MERRY <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2 a : BRIGHT, LIVELY <gay sunny meadows> b : brilliant in color
3 : given to social pleasures; also : LICENTIOUS
4 a : HOMOSEXUAL <gay men> b : of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>
synonym see LIVELY
- gay adverb
- gay·ness noun
Most paper dictionaries probably don't have the 4th definition, and none of them are close to meaning anything like stupid or dumb.
- Mar 2, 2007 05:36pm by nest - i drink to drown my sorrows but the dam things have learned to swim -frida kahlo Location: kcmo/PDX streets
The murder and torture of matthew shepard comes to mind.
The rape and murder of brandon teena as well.
Not to mention many other assaults and discrimination that people have had to go through because they are "gay".
although some see it as just a word, I consider it a hate word and will not use it.
check the cite...hatecrime.org
- Mar 2, 2007 06:54pm by dublow - http://KCMusicScene.com
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with regards to the article, that girl obviously wasn't using it in the context of hate, just the slang term. but.......we all know where its root meaning comes from and that's the belittling of homosexuals. I'm very much looking forward to the phrase being weeded out of society, now that homosexuality is becoming more acceptable. I personally see no difference in the word fa**ot, as i do the word ni**er. Therefore, i look at calling something "gay" just as ignorant as calling something "black". I of course was guilty in high school of calling everything "gay" in the slang usage, but a little maturity, and having your sister and close friends come out with their homosexuality, quickly wakes you up to the ignorance of it all and how much it offends people. So yeah, I obviously don't throw the term around anymore, and hope that the people who do grow up.
- Mar 2, 2007 07:40pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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in a general thought, it seems that as people we have to have a experience, friend, relations, trama or drama happen for us before we get it. that's how we learn i guess. its amazing to me that we can't simply "walk a mile in someone elses shoes" to bring to our awareness the pain, fear, sadness, hurt, embarassment, what have you, caused by thoughtlessness.
this type of thoughtlessness, is within us around many different matters.
" its not happening in my world" the assumption is automatic that "as it is with me, so it goes for erbody else" until we open up look around and connect with someone elses reality then its damn I never thought of it that way.
the human experience
no matter how you try to justify, rationalize, skirt the issue, or deny even emcee level word play cannot negate the need to cohabitate this planet, to me that means being aware, considerate, having a healthy ego (confidence not errogance) and being open to ourself and others ALL AT THE SAME TIME EVERYDAY
- Mar 2, 2007 09:44pm by dublow - http://KCMusicScene.com
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very true. we as people are constantly subjected to things meant to disconnect us from ourselves, each other, and our surroundings. but if you look at the history of evolution, it would seem that the human race, being the ONE, massive, connected organism that it is, naturally awakens itself bit by bit to the greater scheme of things and my hope is that one day, the norm won't be experiences shaping who we are, but us being connected enough within ourselves to shape our experiences. But then again, I've always been quite the dreamer =).
- Mar 2, 2007 11:02pm by nadia
I love the Sarah Silverman skit where she uses the term, then looks at her gay neighbors, and goes, 'Oh, I didn't mean gay like 'homosexual.' I meant gay, like 'retarded.'"
I also love how this girl used that term as a reaction to being teased for being Mormon. Just goes to show that when you victimize one person, they turn right around and victimize someone else. Even if it's just with words.
- Mar 2, 2007 11:53pm by beatbroker - -beatbroker
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this thread is so gay.
- Mar 3, 2007 03:48am by Whatsgood
The PC police have taken things too far. Theres a politican in Florida that wants to band the word "Illegal Alien" because its offensive to people who enter the country ILLEGALLY lol. People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure.
- Mar 3, 2007 04:03am by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
[quote:b431fee825="Whatsgood"] People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure.[/quote:b431fee825]
does this also apply to people alive during slavery?
(I realize they are not equal, I'm just saying.)
it's wrong, next issue!
- Mar 3, 2007 08:33am by Whatsgood
[quote:36319c071c="MILES"][quote:36319c071c="Whatsgood"] People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure.[/quote:36319c071c]
does this also apply to people alive during slavery?
(I realize they are not equal, I'm just saying.)
it's wrong, next issue![/quote:36319c071c]
What does slaverly have to do with it? Also if you could please explain why its wrong. I must admit its a bit annoying reading your post saying something isn't right without explaining why it's wrong. Also are you suggesting censorship in public? If you you and all the rappers are here better look for another genre of music because we all know Hip-Hop isn't the most PC type of music.
- Mar 3, 2007 02:49pm by Fur1ous - "She said, 'who the fuck died and made you God?' I said, Jesus"
Well, to give you all some background, I grew up in Amherst, Massachusetts...probably the most liberal town in the world (ex. "freshMAN" is no longer acceptable, they are now "9th graders" or "transitional students). When I was a young kid it was perfectly acceptable where I'm from to see two men or two women walking down the street holding hands or kissing in public. I've pretty much been densensitized to discrimination from an early age, everyone is accepted by me regardless of color, creed, or sexual orientation. When we used the word "gay" to describe things there was no sexual or discriminatory connotations to the word. I've had several in-depth conversations with homosexuals about the use out of the word "out of context" and none seemed to be bothered by it.
I find that the people that get the most irate about events of this nature are people who feel the need to champion a cause so desperately that they will pick any and every little issue. I for one have stepped forward to say that I've used the worry and occasionally still do, not saying it's right, it's just the truth. I am 27, if you are my age or close to it, you probably have used the word "out of context" too.
I'm not lobbying for the use of the word, only saying that it is not something to start boycotts and petitions over. It is also not, in this particular sitution, something that warrants a lawsuit.
Oh and NRG, to address your response to me....I know homosexuals who call each other "fag". I'm sure the homosexual community has bigger fish to fry.
1 a : happily excited : MERRY <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
That's the time tested definition, just as "nigger" is an ignorant dirty person. Gay no more describes a homosexual than nigger describes those of African descent....and that's my word.
- Mar 3, 2007 05:42pm by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
[quote:4a4536e3a5="Whatsgood"][quote:4a4536e3a5="MILES"][quote:4a4536e3a5="Whatsgood"] People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure.[/quote:4a4536e3a5]
does this also apply to people alive during slavery?
(I realize they are not equal, I'm just saying.)
it's wrong, next issue![/quote:4a4536e3a5]
What does slaverly have to do with it? Also if you could please explain why its wrong. I must admit its a bit annoying reading your post saying something isn't right without explaining why it's wrong. Also are you suggesting censorship in public? If you you and all the rappers are here better look for another genre of music because we all know Hip-Hop isn't the most PC type of music.[/quote:4a4536e3a5]
based the logic of your arguement::::
"People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure."
If you lived during slavery... it would equal...
[b:4a4536e3a5]"People have held "slaves" as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure."[/b:4a4536e3a5]... so it's ok.
You are basing the acceptability of the word "gay" used in that way, on the what is going on around you during your life. If that is a legitimate argument, then that is to say that if you lived during a time when slavery occurred, if schools were officially segregated, or if women couldnt vote, your logic would still apply.
And if you disagree with my application of your comment, if you view it as purely circumstantial, then it seems to me that your initial comment is not true by your own definition.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
[i:4a4536e3a5]
"Gay"[/i:4a4536e3a5] as a term can be misinterpreted by many people as a slurr. So, let it go. This reminds me of the argument that the Confederate flag is a symbol of the south... and if someone has it on their wall or on their truck that it doesnt have anything to do with slavery. CLEARLY it was a symbol of the south seperating themselves from the North so they may hold their own values, which included slavery, so why be proud of that? If you are proud of the south, dont choose a symbol that stands for things you dont.
Honestly, I dont care if you agree with me. Everyone's actions simply reflect who they are and what their understanding of things are. Do as you wish. And I'll do the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++
[i:4a4536e3a5]Additionally regarding rap being PC or not... [/i:4a4536e3a5]
What other artists do doesnt have anything to do with me, regardless of genre.
GOOD DAY
- Mar 3, 2007 05:50pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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heard it and seen that myself.
- Mar 3, 2007 06:29pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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[quote:3c4ccba81c="NRG"]two boys were paid to beat up a gay student the year before.[/quote:3c4ccba81c]
😆 Who paid them? That's what I wanna know.
- Mar 3, 2007 07:19pm by phism
[quote:692d16fa18="JDFlow"]
😆 Who paid them? That's what I wanna know.[/quote:692d16fa18]
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- Mar 3, 2007 10:56pm by Whatsgood
[quote:49ad82626a="MILES"][quote:49ad82626a="Whatsgood"][quote:49ad82626a="MILES"][quote:49ad82626a="Whatsgood"] People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure.[/quote:49ad82626a]
does this also apply to people alive during slavery?
(I realize they are not equal, I'm just saying.)
it's wrong, next issue![/quote:49ad82626a]
What does slaverly have to do with it? Also if you could please explain why its wrong. I must admit its a bit annoying reading your post saying something isn't right without explaining why it's wrong. Also are you suggesting censorship in public? If you you and all the rappers are here better look for another genre of music because we all know Hip-Hop isn't the most PC type of music.[/quote:49ad82626a]
based the logic of your arguement::::
"People have used the word "gay" to describe things they disagree with for as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure."
If you lived during slavery... it would equal...
[b:49ad82626a]"People have held "slaves" as long as i've been alive and even before I was born i'm sure."[/b:49ad82626a]... so it's ok.
You are basing the acceptability of the word "gay" used in that way, on the what is going on around you during your life. If that is a legitimate argument, then that is to say that if you lived during a time when slavery occurred, if schools were officially segregated, or if women couldnt vote, your logic would still apply.
And if you disagree with my application of your comment, if you view it as purely circumstantial, then it seems to me that your initial comment is not true by your own definition.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
[i:49ad82626a]
"Gay"[/i:49ad82626a] as a term can be misinterpreted by many people as a slurr. So, let it go. This reminds me of the argument that the Confederate flag is a symbol of the south... and if someone has it on their wall or on their truck that it doesnt have anything to do with slavery. CLEARLY it was a symbol of the south seperating themselves from the North so they may hold their own values, which included slavery, so why be proud of that? If you are proud of the south, dont choose a symbol that stands for things you dont.
Honestly, I dont care if you agree with me. Everyone's actions simply reflect who they are and what their understanding of things are. Do as you wish. And I'll do the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++
[i:49ad82626a]Additionally regarding rap being PC or not... [/i:49ad82626a]
What other artists do doesnt have anything to do with me, regardless of genre.
GOOD DAY[/quote:49ad82626a]
Comparing slaverly to the word "gay" is a pretty big reach. People will be offended no matter what. So I guess if someone says "Miles you throw like a girl" that would be offensive according to the PC police. Censorship certainly has gone too far in this country indeed.
- Mar 5, 2007 05:12am by E.N.Elder
I think plugging slavery into what whatsgood said is a little silly(gay).
Thats kinda misinterpreting whats really being said, Most people have heard that phrase before so they are able to understand that it's not always meant as a derogatory term, but simply a phrase to say that something is: silly, stupid, dumb etc.
I honestly don't see whats wrong with the phrase. Who says it's referring to sexual orientation? I mean the word use to mean happy, then it meant homosexual, now it also means stupid. Meanings of words can change. Most people seem to understand that.
- Mar 5, 2007 03:36pm by nest - i drink to drown my sorrows but the dam things have learned to swim -frida kahlo Location: kcmo/PDX streets
[ Most people have heard that phrase before so they are able to understand that it's not always meant as a derogatory term, but simply a phrase to say that something is: silly, stupid, dumb etc.
I honestly don't see whats wrong with the phrase. Who says it's referring to sexual orientation? I mean the word use to mean happy, then it meant homosexual, now it also means stupid. Meanings of words can change. Most people seem to understand that.[/quote]
ok.. please explain what you mean by "it's not always ment in a derogatory term" then follow that sentence up with.. but simply a phrase to say that something is: silly, stupid, dumb etc.
the word "gay" has changed. It is now ment to describe someones choice of sexual preference. Today, no one i know uses the word/phrase to say they are happy about something.. come on.
let's try to look at it this way, how about we replace the word "gay" with black, mexican, white, asian...exc..exc. ("thats so black" thats so asian")
You still feel comfortable using this phrase?
- Mar 5, 2007 05:41pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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I think it should be noted that the general public's perception of homosexuality and how its changed over the years factors in here...
Also...
Words have never been static.
Any comparison to the connotative or denotative qualities of the word "gay" and the African slave trade is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
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I just think it sounds idiotic, regardless of the connotation or lack there of.
As does the N- Word used in any context.
- Mar 6, 2007 04:46am by ArtistWithEntity - http://myspace.com/artistwithentity
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...but still
atleast today.. as of the today
im pretty sure poeple can tell the diffrence between...
the word, "gay" as in homosexuality
and the word gay.. as in, "thats so gay/lame"
..poeple just need to quit bitching
and let the little shit slide...
if im calling you gay...
..then i probably aint shit to you
..so why would you be listening to what i got to say to begin with?
- Mar 6, 2007 05:13am by nadia
So what you're saying is, gay people are a minority...but it's enough of a minority that it can be considered "little" and therefore it's not a big deal to offend such an inconsequential group?
i don't think that's a very smart way to look at it...
it's not "censorship" to try to be a little bit tolerant of people's differences...by, you know, not throwing around words like "gay" when you mean stupid or wack...it really can't cramp your style that much to be considerate of other people...
and if you don't think it's a big deal to use the word "gay" in a derogatory manner, then I really hope that you use it that way in a job interview in front of a homosexual boss at a company you really wanted to work for.
see how much he or she lets that "little shit slide."
- Mar 6, 2007 05:30am by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
[quote:9dd4c63461="Reach."]e or denotative qualities of the word "gay" and the African slave trade is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.[/quote:9dd4c63461]
READ THE POST
yall are willin out on the whole gay/slavery thing. I was not comparing the two as equal incidents. I was examining the thoroughness of "WHATSGOOD'S" initial statement.
And by saying that by applying it to slavery is wrong and not equal, you are proving my point that his initial statement was in fact flawed.
[quote:9dd4c63461="MILES"]
(I realize they are not equal, I'm just saying.)
[/quote:9dd4c63461]
[size=18:9dd4c63461]I hope this discussion turns productive rather than nit-picky and off-issue.[/size:9dd4c63461]
But then again, if it were to happen, it would have already happened.
Clearly many of you are interested in dancing around the topic which is in fact homophobia and the path homosexual people are on toward acceptance. I realize that some of you dont want to talk about your anti-homosexual positions. But if you do not feel comfortable putting your beliefs out there, perhaps it reflective of your own discomfort with your belief rather than it being simply a matter of privacy.
- Mar 6, 2007 08:25am by ArtistWithEntity - http://myspace.com/artistwithentity
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i'm not saying that it is ok to use the word rashly..
im just saying..
poeple are going to use that no matter what..
you could be walking down the street..
..someone says "that restraunt is gay" ..what not
i mean what are you gonna do?
..keep walking of course and ignore it i hope..
no sense in beefing over it..
i dont know..
it really just makes me think of the 3rd grade
staying on topic however...
..the girl just got made fun of for being morman
now it may have not been the best comeback in the world..
..but she basicallly stated.... 'your wrong for making fun of me, your wack'...
thats all that was..
and they gon sue her...
in all honesty, i dont even use that word..
and if i do.. it was never towards an actual person...
more or so objects if anything...
i dont know. im done.
- Mar 6, 2007 02:19pm by machine Location: gladstone
first of all, i would like to say that the whole idea of "profanity" is so asinine to begin with that it's almost obscene.
and on the gay thing, i dunno. like, i say fag, but i've convinced myself that it's generally a term of disrespect and not a derogatory word for gays, feel me? like, i'm not homophobic, but i'm not going to limit my vocabulary so the gay community will be more comfortable. and, yeah, the teachers should have come to her defense when she was taking shit for being mormon. that's like, selective PC-ness, and that's gay.
- Mar 6, 2007 02:46pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:3d881323cc="MILES"]
READ THE POST[/quote:3d881323cc]
I read it. And I'm still wondering what application slavery has to the overall discussion. In fairness to you though...you did say they were unequal... I'd imagine that such an acknowledgement would also mean they were unrelated, but that's just me.
[quote:3d881323cc="MILES"]
Clearly many of you are interested in dancing around the topic which is in fact homophobia and the path homosexual people are on toward acceptance.[/quote:3d881323cc]
And this, sir, is precisely what I alluded to earlier in this thread.
In this country we've come to a point where the mere mention of anything that even appears to oppose homosexuality is branded as "homophobia". Unfortunately you're not aiding their pursuit of acceptance. The last thing homosexuals need is uber-sensitive folk who have knee-jerk reactions to any and everything. People are so quick to trump up supposed instances of homophobia that the real issues are obscured in the process.
This discussion has nothing at all to do with my or anyone else's views of homosexuality. It's been about the connotative qualities of the word "gay" and whether or not ANY context is appropriate for its use.
[quote:3d881323cc]I realize that some of you dont want to talk about your anti-homosexual positions. But if you do not feel comfortable putting your beliefs out there, perhaps it reflective of your own discomfort with your belief rather than it being simply a matter of privacy.[/quote:3d881323cc]
Come back to Earth...
You've not heard one soul say that they champion the use of the term in such a way that it demeans anyone who might be homosexual, but rather people saying that words are not static and have connotative definitions that change over time.
- Mar 6, 2007 04:41pm by AceFadal - [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]~means To learn by doing
www.dipity.com/acefadal
WE ARE, Kansas City is [b:353f9d151d]k[/b:353f9d151d]inestheti[b:353f9d151d]C[/b:353f9d151d]!
http://crushproofstudio.bandcamp.com/ Location: Downtown, Kansas City, Mo.
Hows this for ya. Ever since I seen this $%$^&! on Bill Maher when he was on ABC I've hated her.
Read the link itself it tells you.:cry:
[url][url]http://www.passionateamerica.com/horward-dean-expects-me-to-denouce-ann-coulter-for-saying-faggot-video/[/url] [/url]
- Mar 6, 2007 04:50pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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uncomfortableness
not wanting with limiting anyone's freedom to express even when I may be insensitive to another.
lots of words justifying insensitive behavior ( cavalier, dodging, lazy excuses)
Jokes or attemps to move away from this by making the thing a joke
righteousness on bothsides of the subject
I resonate with what nadia said, I get miles point about the interchangable use of gay and nigger, an while I will never forget slavery and its impact on african american folk nor will I forget the holocost, starving ethopia, AIDS impact on everyone, baby girls being put to death cuz they're girls in china , the practice of raping women as a war strategy in countries were women are put to death for being unclean( this list could go on)
fear and hate are amazing weapons
in other words there's lots of mean bad shit being done to lots of folks all over this planet in the name of who knows what.
several attempts to call into question the similarity of "thing" we do words (words are not static)
but here a thought intention behind the word makes it a weapon or a salve. we are responsible and accountable for our intentions even before the words come
peace
- Mar 6, 2007 04:50pm by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
[quote:06e39fe548="Reach."]
[quote:06e39fe548]I realize that some of you dont want to talk about your anti-homosexual positions. But if you do not feel comfortable putting your beliefs out there, perhaps it reflective of your own discomfort with your belief rather than it being simply a matter of privacy.[/quote:06e39fe548]
Come back to Earth...
You've not heard one soul say that they champion the use of the term in such a way that it demeans anyone who might be homosexual, but rather people saying that words are not static and have connotative definitions that change over time.[/quote:06e39fe548]
I'm always on earth sir. Grounding is not an issue. And you are the only one to frequently emphasize changing definitions. This is still a topic reflective of beliefs beyond terminology, [b:06e39fe548]because one's belief determines their use of language.
[/b:06e39fe548]
- Mar 6, 2007 05:01pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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To this point in our discussion not one person has said anything in opposition to same-sex orientation. Not one person.
You're reaching to suggest that anyone who doesn't decry the usage of a term, that when applied, does not reference sexual orientation is "homophobic".
- Mar 6, 2007 05:09pm by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
HIPHOPKC, REACH IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! DONT TEST HIM!
- Mar 6, 2007 05:12pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:22f320cb36="MILES"]HIPHOPKC, REACH IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! DONT TEST HIM![/quote:22f320cb36]
Gee, that's what I would expect an adult to say...
It's perfectly fine to pop off and run some "homophobia" smack, but when I defend myself and the other people in this forum somehow I'm a bully.
It's elementary to me.
We ought to be able to talk to one another as civil adults, but I guess once you run out of stuff to say you go third grade with it.
- Mar 6, 2007 05:16pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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hey reach I messed up your post man I need a personal tutorial on how the post a damn message if I want to use quotes
HELP ME!
- Mar 6, 2007 05:30pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:4375094218="NRG"]hey reach I messed up your post man I need a personal tutorial on how the post a damn message if I want to use quotes
HELP ME![/quote:4375094218]
Start by tagging the "quote" link just below the actual post of the person you're trying to quote.
From there you can separate individual pieces of their post...
You'll just need to drop quote commands around it.
(quote)(/quote)
With brackets and not with quotations. Hope that helps.
- Mar 6, 2007 05:37pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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To your point Necia... I don't think anyone is dodging the issue of homosexuality whatsoever. This is an unrelated discussion.
I would ask though why one has to speak out in favor of homosexuality simply to avoid being called "homophobic"?
That's the point I made earlier.
That's what's happening in America today.
Anyone who even appears to speak out in opposition to homosexuality is branded as a "homophobe". Something's wrong with that.
The word is grossly overused and is subsequently being devalued.
There are incidences everyday where homosexuals are being treated unfairly. We have to be careful not to lump trumped up instances of "homophobia" in with the real McCoy.
- Mar 6, 2007 05:40pm by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
In all sincerity::::
Reach, perhaps you are a superior debater, or are a more knowledgeable adult.
I am a simple man. I like people, and relationships, and music. I mean no harm. I enjoy brie cheese and red wine. I have opinions and others do too. Lets all love ourselves and each other.
I hope this post isn't picked apart.
Because it comes from the heart.
Let KC rise
Let Hip Hop fly.
I love you!!!!
- Mar 6, 2007 05:43pm by mythik - www.myspace.com/mythillogical
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[quote:e48a6a8da3="nadia"]
and if you don't think it's a big deal to use the word "gay" in a derogatory manner, then I really hope that you use it that way in a job interview in front of a homosexual boss at a company you really wanted to work for.
see how much he or she lets that "little shit slide."[/quote:e48a6a8da3]
C'mon now. I find it hard to fathom that someone who actually is making an effort to apply for a position and shows up for the interview would be dumb enough to throw around the term in that context and actually think that they are going to be offered the position. But then again, the Jerry Springer gene pool has been filling up at an alarming rate for many years. There are too many people out there that are quick to point fingers, claiming ingorance and intolerance but still go home and throw derogatory terms around like it's nothing. In order to break away from this cycle, we as parents and teachers need to educate our young people through actual experiences and expose our youth to the fact that not everyone looks, acts and thinks the same. And more importantly, that these different ways of thinking only make us stronger as a whole. And I don't mean sitting them down and watching an episode of "Queer Eye for the straight guy" either. No matter what sexual orientation, color, height or weight you are, just keep your head up and do what makes you happy. If you're not happy, then make the changes that can allow you to be so. Fuck what other people think or say, you are who you are. Embrace it....and maybe don't be so quick to whine because somebody doesn't think the same way you do. Karma....remember that.
- Mar 6, 2007 05:48pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:d6b8b41c1d="MILES"]Reach, perhaps you are a superior debater, or are a more knowledgeable adult.[/quote:d6b8b41c1d]
All of that is immaterial. I'm not out for superiority.
And I've never made any such claims.
This is why I took exception to what you said.
I'm just shooting the breeze. And I only hope that when individuals disagree they can walk away without hard feelings. That's always my hope for this forum. That people can talk plainly without having to insult one another. The exchanging of ideas is what's truly important.
- Mar 6, 2007 05:59pm by nadia
Okay "artist with entity," let's review:
The mormon girl? The one who said the word "Gay" in a derogatory manner? She is the one sue-ING. She is not being sued. She's suing because her poor choice in language resulted in discipline from her school.
Which goes back to what I originally said: go ahead, use any words you want. But you should think about who you might offend, not only because of their feelings, but because of how the words you use might result in how people treat YOU. It's not because of some "PC-police" (as if). It's because you may be misunderstood. Maybe you aren't a bigot, but you shoulda thought of that before you said the n-word in front of someone who cared. Maybe you're not a homophobe, but the gay person who overheard you might not be so nice to you when you need something from them. Who knows?
You're still free to use whatever words you want to use. No one is stopping you from making yourself look like an asshole. (I'm looking at you, Whatsgood.) Words reflect on the people who use them. We don't always know each other's hearts very well, so we have to base our opinions of people on what comes out of their mouths.
- Mar 6, 2007 06:05pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:4f90791f0e="nadia"]Okay "artist with entity," let's review:
The mormon girl? The one who said the word "Gay" in a derogatory manner? She is the one sue-ING. She is not being sued. She's suing because her poor choice in language resulted in discipline from her school.[/quote:4f90791f0e]
I missed that myself. I was under the impression that she was being sued for using such terminology at school. I thought that sounded rather ridiculous...
She has the right to free speech, but there are always applications of that free speech that can't be used in certain situations. A lawsuit to defend her right to use such terminology at school is JUST AS SILLY.
- Mar 6, 2007 06:43pm by nest - i drink to drown my sorrows but the dam things have learned to swim -frida kahlo Location: kcmo/PDX streets
Coretta Scott King, the civil rights leader's demanded a strong stand for gay and lesbian rights. "I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said. -
Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
ok, im done with the topic.
- Mar 6, 2007 06:55pm by Whatsgood
[quote:4df0386dc5="MILES"][quote:4df0386dc5="Reach."]e or denotative qualities of the word "gay" and the African slave trade is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.[/quote:4df0386dc5]
READ THE POST
yall are willin out on the whole gay/slavery thing. I was not comparing the two as equal incidents. I was examining the thoroughness of "WHATSGOOD'S" initial statement.
And by saying that by applying it to slavery is wrong and not equal, you are proving my point that his initial statement was in fact flawed.
[quote:4df0386dc5="MILES"]
(I realize they are not equal, I'm just saying.)
[/quote:4df0386dc5]
[size=18:4df0386dc5]I hope this discussion turns productive rather than nit-picky and off-issue.[/size:4df0386dc5]
But then again, if it were to happen, it would have already happened.
Clearly many of you are interested in dancing around the topic which is in fact homophobia and the path homosexual people are on toward acceptance. I realize that some of you dont want to talk about your anti-homosexual positions. But if you do not feel comfortable putting your beliefs out there, perhaps it reflective of your own discomfort with your belief rather than it being simply a matter of privacy.[/quote:4df0386dc5]
Heh so using the word "Gay" makes you homophobic? You should never go to England then they call cigs "fags". Yanno I sat by a gay guy during math class in high school pretty sure I heard him toss around the word "gay" like it was nothing. If I was homophobic I wouldn't have sat by him no? Btw I support Gay Unions so i'd say im not homophobic. I think when people say something is "gay" its a school yard type of thing.
- Mar 6, 2007 07:01pm by ArtistWithEntity - http://myspace.com/artistwithentity
http://myspace.com/artistwithentitybeatpage Location: KC
[quote:0e828b5b5d]The mormon girl? The one who said the word "Gay" in a derogatory manner? She is the one sue-ING. She is not being sued. She's suing because her poor choice in language resulted in discipline from her school.
[/quote:0e828b5b5d]
word. i stand corrected.
[quote:0e828b5b5d]Which goes back to what I originally said: go ahead, use any words you want. But you should think about who you might offend, not only because of their feelings, but because of how the words you use might result in how people treat YOU. It's not because of some "PC-police" (as if). It's because you may be misunderstood. Maybe you aren't a bigot, but you shoulda thought of that before you said the n-word in front of someone who cared. Maybe you're not a homophobe, but the gay person who overheard you might not be so nice to you when you need something from them. Who knows?
You're still free to use whatever words you want to use. No one is stopping you from making yourself look like an asshole. (I'm looking at you, Whatsgood.) Words reflect on the people who use them. We don't always know each other's hearts very well, so we have to base our opinions of people on what comes out of their mouths.[/quote:0e828b5b5d]
i feel you on that..
..and usually poeple are considerate of others
just out of common courtesy..
..the only time i hear the word being said
is when i'm chillin with my poeples or what not..
and the word has nothing to do with homosexuality..
its just another way of saying.. lame
same with any other slang that is being used.
i'm not homophobic, but not i'm not gay..
..so its hard to truly relate to the negative and deragotory
aspects of the word..
...but i know it maybe offensive to some poeple..
bottom line is.. i know when its acceptable to use the word..
..and i know when its not
so no, the word gay would never arise in a job interview.
whether the boss was gay or not.
..but yeah, i understand what your saying.
- Mar 6, 2007 07:55pm by nadia
It actually just crossed my mind that there's a post on this forum somewhere where I called something "gay." I've totally used the word, and meant "lame." In fact, I did it in front of a gay colleague like two months ago and then I felt like the biggest jerk ever. Since then, I've kind of cut it from my vocabulary. Just because sometimes you get used to saying something and you let it slip when you shouldn't, you know?
- Mar 6, 2007 09:45pm by dublow - http://KCMusicScene.com
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It would seem that those who are still ok with throwing around the term like in, "that's so gay", "stop being gay, man" etc, lack a vast amount of empathy. If you were able to put yourself in a homosexual's position, would you want to constantly by subjected to a word that describes your sexual orientation, with something being lame? It's almost as if some of you are fighting for your use of the word to call something lame. Like you can't just call something stupid, lame, or whatever. Obviously in our society the word "gay" is mostly associated with homosexuality.....i don't see terms being used as, lame marriage, lame and lesbian, lame clubs, lame pride, etc. Nobody can argue that its slang meaning comes anywhere close to being as prevalant in our society as dealing with sexual orientation. So my question is, why choose to use it instead of the usual words? Would you feel comfortable calling something gay in a room full of homosexuals? If you would, I doubt you have anyone close in your life that's gay. To see how hard it is for people you love to feel like they're not alwyas accepted, over something they've been since they were born. It's almost as if people pick on the gay community as if it's a weak population, easy to make fun of, and easy to put at the bottom of the minority list. I guess i just don't understand why someone who says they don't have a problem with homosexuality, would choose the most prominent word in the english language for it, to describe things as stupid or lame. And the only people I meet today who are against homosexuality all together, are religious evangelicals or people who aren't comfortable enough with their own sexuality that it bothers them....and none of them ever know anyone who is gay other than a mere acquaintance.
- Mar 6, 2007 10:51pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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How's this for irony?
The term "homophobia" when broken down (from the Latin derivative [i:ae13881372]homo[/i:ae13881372] "man" or "human" and [i:ae13881372]phobia[/i:ae13881372] "fear") translates to fear of "fear or hatred of the male sex or humankind".
Few people have trouble with utilizing the term to describe hostility, hatred or opposition to homosexuality though. The word "homophobia", as it is applied today, is an adaptation itself.
Again, words are not static.
- Mar 8, 2007 07:48am by mythik - www.myspace.com/mythillogical
www.myspace.com/barbaricmerits
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Did anyone see the new South Park tonight? It totally made me think of this thread.
- Mar 9, 2007 06:17am by MILES - [url]http://www.MilesBonny.com/[/url] Location: KCK
just read this.. thought it was interesting regarding this discussion...
[b:d5501b9763]"'Faggot' isn't offensive to gays; it has nothing to do with gays," [/b:d5501b9763]
Coulter said on FOX News' "Hannity and Colmes."
more here [url]http://www.strangefamousrecords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37107[/url]
thats all peace
- Mar 9, 2007 09:39am by Whatsgood
Yeah well Dan Coulter is a moron and she stirs up the pot for attention. I can't believe FOX still puts her on there after her comments about the 9-11 widows. Miles do you get offended that Europeans refer to ciggarettes as fags?
- Mar 9, 2007 12:40pm by DR.T - nuts .. haha Location: KCMO
Yeah...I was watching BBC (for who knows what reason) and all of a sudden someone said "Hey d'you want to go smoke a fag?" I was like "what!" Then he pulled out a cig and i was like "Ohhh......"
- Mar 9, 2007 04:58pm by maclethal
i used to not say "gay" "faggot" "retarded" and other words like that to describe things. i even did a song about not using those words.
now i do say them.
because they are really just words, and if a simple sound of the mouth is strong enough to hurt your feelings-- the last thing you need is an actual enemy.
jaded with over-sensitivity. my mom died in 2004. fuck that stupid bitch.
see? just words. i have insecurehumanaphobia.
- Mar 9, 2007 05:47pm by nadia
Whew! That's a relief, Mac. I've been just biting my tongue, trying not to call your dead mom a stupid bitch. I'm glad that I can let loose now.
- Mar 9, 2007 06:15pm by Whatsgood
Mac is going to beat you up and take your lunch money Nadia.
- Mar 9, 2007 07:20pm by maclethal
[quote:e852d9daa3="nadia"]Whew! That's a relief, Mac. I've been just biting my tongue, trying not to call your dead mom a stupid bitch. I'm glad that I can let loose now.[/quote:e852d9daa3]
it makes me wonder if during a job interview if i called my dead boss a "stupid bitch" how much sliding the little shit would be able to do.
i suppose the only sliding dead people do is during terrible floods in new orleans graveyards! nyuck nyuck nyuck!
i'd buy nadia lunch, she ain't gotta steal nothin'.
- Mar 9, 2007 08:08pm by Whatsgood
How bout you buy your favorite mod some lunch? (no homo). Wait is no homo a correct thing to say? Cam'ron says it on TV they dont bleep it out or make it a big deal so I guess its okay.
- Mar 9, 2007 10:24pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:9287e7a677="MILES"]
[b:9287e7a677]"'Faggot' isn't offensive to gays; it has nothing to do with gays," [/b:9287e7a677]
Coulter said on FOX News' "Hannity and Colmes."
more here [url]http://www.strangefamousrecords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37107[/url]
thats all peace[/quote:9287e7a677]
That's inexcusable, if for no other reason, than the fact that it was directed at someone. Try as she might, but there simply no way to justify having indirectly called him a "faggot".
Coulter's good at pissing people off.
