Topic: Rap isn't music.
- May 17, 2006 09:48pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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How many times have you heard this?
I had a lengthy discussion with a few people today on this very topic.
Weigh in...
- May 17, 2006 11:17pm by sikestyle - -Stuff and Things...Things and Stuff...
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who's grandmother are you aguing with now reach?
haha
do people still think like this?
- May 18, 2006 01:05am by Lucidialect
Were you at a hoe-down, or a hootinany?
- May 18, 2006 01:24am by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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The guy's actually quite a bit younger than you'd think.
He's thirtysomething...
Here's the irony...
He owns the "Illadelph Halflife" album.
- May 18, 2006 02:10am by Ben_Fuller
Anyone who says rap (or any other other style of MUSIC) isn't really music is a fucking MORON and any consequent statement(s) they make about anything really should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
- May 18, 2006 02:17am by trez260 - http://www.myspace.com/trez
i assume thats because of the roots being an actual band versuses the " dj and emcee" "two turntables and microphone" and instead of actual instruments being played by the artist collectively, it's either samples which the roots do sample, and simplified synths. the convos i've had around this topic has always been around those things. needless to say that i do indeed beleive it is music, but those are the points made in the debates that i've had.
- May 18, 2006 02:43am by phism
honestly, i think it's uh... a little different. so i can see why people say that, but that doesn't put it on a different quality level than other things we call music. it depends on what you call music.
i like to think of it as a sort of anti-music in a way... i guess in the same way as jazz or punk or other sort of "rebellious" genres... at one point, a bunch of people decided they didn't like what was passing for music, and decided to do something completely different, and you have to admit that in all of those things there's an element of "we're going to do something that you don't even consider music" to sort of throw it in the face of the status quo.
- May 18, 2006 05:02am by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
It's most certainly music. Most of the vocals come off way different than any other type of music, but that's cool because it gives a way to write songs for people that can't sing.
On the instrumental level it's certainly music as well. What was the first genre of music to exploit the use of not just samples, but odd sounds people would never think to be musical. Hip Hop/Rap revolutionized electronic music imo, and pretty much music in general by pushing the envelope and doing things that had not been done or not done enough before.
- May 18, 2006 06:31am by phism
i had an argument with a friend about whether or not a turntable was an instrument. a couple years later i sent her that thing of rob swift doing that charlie parker song cheers... she still didn't get it..
- May 18, 2006 04:13pm by Lucidialect
I really don't mind that most people don't get it. Those that do appreciate it, do so fully. And most will never understand.
In a realm where every chord progression has been explored, every instrument featured, in every genre of music, pressed to wax, most of which to be forgotten and burried beneath tons of contemporary pop bullshit... the world should be thankful that djs and producers dedicate themselves to excavating what was forgotten and recontextualizing it to a potential never before considered.
😥 sorry...I just get a little emotional. Its so beautiful...
- May 18, 2006 04:45pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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Does that mean rock bands who are rapping aren't music? It's all the eye of the beholder if you ask me. For example, I don't see how paint splatters are art (especially million dollar art), but I'm told they are actually extremely complex and deep.
- May 18, 2006 04:59pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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Oh, yeah. Also, there's a guy in town named Ben, I forget his last name, but he's a pianist. Dudes like successfully thirteen albums deep and living off his music. He was tellin me about being hired to do some work for a Kenny Loggins album back in the day, and guess what? Kenny Loggins used samples for some of his stuff. Sampling goes much deeper than just electronic music.
- May 18, 2006 04:59pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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"THEY" have been saying "THIS" since rap/hiphop was new. meanwhile, "THEY" are justing trying to figure out how to borrow, copy, emulate, repackage, rename, "IT" in such a way as to "OWN IT".
This whole cycle is moot simply because "WHATEVER" rap is or is not, it is worldwide, large and in charge, a cash cow, the language and sounds of several generation, and never gonna go away.
so. . . . .Fu*k Them and their discussions . . . . . Midwest Represent our Variety Sound of HIPHOP
we're next . . . . . . .KIM
end transmission . . . . .
- May 18, 2006 05:21pm by phism
[quote:f61b3cfbc1="JDFlow"]Does that mean rock bands who are rapping aren't music? It's all the eye of the beholder if you ask me. For example, I don't see how paint splatters are art (especially million dollar art), but I'm told they are actually extremely complex and deep.[/quote:f61b3cfbc1]
if we're talking about 311 and limp bizkit, i'd be willing to call that non-music. perhaps "abominable" would be a more appropriate description.
- May 18, 2006 06:08pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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[quote:7982915c73="phism"]if we're talking about 311 and limp bizkit, i'd be willing to call that non-music. perhaps "abominable" would be a more appropriate description.[/quote:7982915c73]
LOL! for real! I'm just sayin, if rapping aint music then they aint music.
- May 18, 2006 06:35pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
Hip Hop is more than music.....I got Hip Hop in my cereal fool 🙂
- May 18, 2006 07:46pm by aeongrey
It is all subjective.. and I don't think that anyone who can't appreciate all forms of music, can actually truly appreciate it for what it is.
This is a common discussion between the indie rock scene and the hardcore punk and grindcore scenes in des moines. I don't get it honestly.. I can find a musical quality in just listening to radio static.
Perception... let them have theirs.. try to help them.. cause honestly.. it is their loss.
- May 19, 2006 01:08am by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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[quote:ce9917900b="aeongrey"]It is all subjective.. and I don't think that anyone who can't appreciate all forms of music, can actually truly appreciate it for what it is.
This is a common discussion between the indie rock scene and the hardcore punk and grindcore scenes in des moines. I don't get it honestly.. I can find a musical quality in just listening to radio static.
Perception... let them have theirs.. try to help them.. cause honestly.. it is their loss.[/quote:ce9917900b]
amen amen amen
and. . . . . .. . .
create opportunities for hiphop culture to shine shine shine everywhere you go keep on reppin
- May 19, 2006 05:35am by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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Simply put...
If hiphop aint music, then why is it in "music" stores? Why is it winning grammies? How can it touch the soul? If you dont see hiphop as music then why are you making it, or having a deep enough craving for it to log onto a site called [color=blue:1892e38cd0]hiphop[/color:1892e38cd0]kc? Define music... If cavemen beating a rock on a wall could create rythym, I'd say "music". If you're not here for it, then [color=yellow:1892e38cd0]WHY ARE YOU HERE[/color:1892e38cd0]!!! for real. Find a new hobby and see if its followers want to hear you degrade it. Til then, I'll be workin on the craft... ONE!
Why get so philisophical about something that is, and will be despite your opinion?
- May 19, 2006 01:49pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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So we're clear...
I began this forum to open up the discussion about some of the attitudes that are still being hurled at our beloved Rap genre.
I am not of the opinion that Rap isn't music.
Music is defined as the planned arrangements of sound, in time, through melody, tone and rhythm.
Rap certainly meets that criteria.
And while I'm not overly concerned with what Rap's dissenters have to say I do think it's important that we can identify and place value on the artform.
- May 19, 2006 02:29pm by DJShobee
back in the day hiphop was more popular just on your block because you could break dance or scratch or paint to a wild style track which would make people walkin stop and look. but now lean wit it rock wit it and grills is not noticed as hiphop because some of these surrounding links won't fit in.
shobee sho...
- May 19, 2006 03:04pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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[quote:7ad8735e5e="Reach."]So we're clear...
I began this forum to open up the discussion about some of the attitudes that are still being hurled at our beloved Rap genre.
I am not of the opinion that Rap isn't music.
Music is defined as the planned arrangements of sound, in time, through melody, tone and rhythm.
Rap certainly meets that criteria.
And while I'm not overly concerned with what Rap's dissenters have to say I do think it's important that we can identify and place value on the artform.[/quote:7ad8735e5e]
Definitely Reach, I already know where you stand. The reply I wrote was just 100% the way I feel about it. I've been listening to people dis on this music that I fell in love with as a kid for a long time now. What I learned is that I don't have to defend it, cause it really carries it's own wieght. People may not want to recognize it as music, but they're sure awful quick to recite a hook or know historical events. Meaning wether they view it as music or not, they respect it.
- May 19, 2006 05:30pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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Its nice to flex my"I'm hard " and "I'm down" muscles from time to time.
passion needs to breathe out in the open from time to time
thanks for the opportunity reach
peace
nrg
- May 22, 2006 04:30pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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It's still hard for me not to defend the artform tooth-and-nail, but I have grown. There are some areas where I can't defend the Rap genre.
I think at this point I'm fair about things...
I take criticism of Rap music where it's deserved, but I'll bite your head off if you're unfairly bad-mouthing the artform.
- May 22, 2006 05:36pm by LouRip - "Im not supposed to be here, Im just not!!"
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I think something else that has to be taken into consideration is the type of rap music that these people listen to that brought them to such a conclusion. Those that are claming that rap isnt music Im willing to bet could not have possibly sat down & listen to all that rap as a whole had to offer. Not saying that all rap is/isnt art or music because the inventor has the right to label it whatever they see fit, as well as the consumer too, but if 50 Cent & D4L isn't that persons cup of tea, can you even have a honest debate with that person? I cant say that because I think 3 Doors Down is wack that rock is not music. How can an individual come to such a conclusion when they have only been exposed to a small piece of a broad culture? I've walked away from a few of these types of debates b/c all I hear is, "That shit on the radio is wack!" but if I throw out a name like Talib or Mos, they go..."who is that?" If u wanna make that assumption about a particular artist...fine, but if u wanna make that assumption about rap as a whole...u betta have ya weight up...
- May 22, 2006 06:47pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
Lou makes a damn good point and it has been mentioned already. When it comes down to it I don't like to admit it, but it is all subjective to each listener.
Someone mentioned paint splatters being sold for outragous amounts of money. Music is no different in reality. I'm not a big fan of gangsta rap, screwed and chopped and all that other stuff, but it sure as hell doesn't mean other people have to agree with my viewpoint. Some of that I consider to be like those paint splatters, but after going to the nelson with an art major I noticed that sometimes those splatters actually have more to them than meets the eye (a picture layered underneath, sometime more than one). So maybe there's nothing wrong with it, just something I've been missing due to not opening my mind to it.
Just some thoughts
- May 22, 2006 06:50pm by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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[quote:2030063b5a="LouRip"]I think something else that has to be taken into consideration is the type of rap music that these people listen to that brought them to such a conclusion. Those that are claming that rap isnt music Im willing to bet could not have possibly sat down & listen to all that rap as a whole had to offer. Not saying that all rap is/isnt art or music because the inventor has the right to label it whatever they see fit, as well as the consumer too, but if 50 Cent & D4L isn't that persons cup of tea, can you even have a honest debate with that person? I cant say that because I think 3 Doors Down is wack that rock is not music. How can an individual come to such a conclusion when they have only been exposed to a small piece of a broad culture? I've walked away from a few of these types of debates b/c all I hear is, "That shit on the radio is wack!" but if I throw out a name like Talib or Mos, they go..."who is that?" If u wanna make that assumption about a particular artist...fine, but if u wanna make that assumption about rap as a whole...u betta have ya weight up...[/quote:2030063b5a]
That's the thing Lou,
The guy I had the debate with owns the Roots' "Illadelph Halflife" album.
- May 22, 2006 09:47pm by LouRip - "Im not supposed to be here, Im just not!!"
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That's the thing Lou,
The guy I had the debate with owns the Roots' "Illadelph Halflife" album.[/quote]
I dont know what his overall generalization is for saying that rap is not music, but it certainly cant be based off that album....
Even Bill O'Reilly could appreciate the live instrumentation on that masterpiece....
If that album lead him to believe that about rap...I wonder what he thinks about jazz.....hmmm.....
- May 23, 2006 08:22am by Reach. - Peace and oneness,
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He's a strange guy so who knows?
😆
