Topic: Coordinating a local Attack on Wal-Mart
- Apr 2, 2006 03:43pm by phism
so... there's a wal-mart gigantimegacenter opening near me, they just tore down blue ridge mall to put it in. which is crap.
i just woke up with this idea.
would anyone be willing to amass a large group of people to apply for jobs there, signing all the bullshit contracts with obviously wrong signatures, and either not showing up for the opening day, or working and ringing people up wrong so they get a bunch of shit free, or if you're in customer service, telilng customers why they shouldn't shop at wal-mart, creating situations that may open the place up for legal problems, etc.
?
here's the link for any responses, or email me maybe.
http://www.gangmembers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14175#14175
it's not even built yet, so this wouldn't be for a couple months probably.
- Apr 2, 2006 04:07pm by Distorted_Mastermind - I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Adam Savage Location: Olathe, KS
Protests kick some serious booty. However it is a fight that is too big to probably even make a statement.....I haven't been arrested in years and want to keep it that way.
My opinion is a mass boycott would have more of an impact than a protest. One starts not shopping at wal-mart, and shows others that it can easily be done....others might start not shopping at wal-mart.
Protest in this case "the man" and chances are good it will end up in arrests and possibly getting shot in the ass with a beanbag.
- Apr 2, 2006 05:41pm by phism
i've been not shopping at wal-mart for a long time and it doesn't seem to make a difference.
also, i just realized this is something i personally couldn't take part in because i'm banned from wal-mart property.
i think that getting a giant group of people to not show up for work or give people hundreds of dollars worth of shit for $5 would hurt them more than picketing and that hippie bullshit.
- Apr 2, 2006 06:45pm by barnyard - Befriend me. ---> [url=http://www.myspace.com/farmfreshcuts]MYSPACE[/url]
yeah good luck organizing a mass boycott of wal mart. this is america man, it's huge for a reason. I personally despise the place but there is NO WAY people would boycott it. Maybe the people that come to this site, but nobody else.
- Apr 2, 2006 06:58pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
dollar general for life!!!
- Apr 2, 2006 07:10pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Phism, why don't you get a job there and try to organize some of the workers, man? I would be willing to talk with you about that being a former Wal-Mart employee and organizer myself. I have a lot of experience and lessons learned which you might find of use. Holla at me. Peace.
-rebel
- Apr 2, 2006 07:21pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
[url=http://www.myspace.com/jdflow]JDFlow on Myspace[/url]
[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
Everytime a big business goes in somewhere there's a board/council the company has to propose the idea to. You're putting your efforts in the wrong direction. You have to protest the board. The area this thing is being built in is a suburb. High rates of middle aged families and senior citizens. When you live on a budget wal-mart is a viable means of survival. School clothes/supplies, electronics, food and much more at a more affordable price than almost anywhere. It appeals to senior citizens because they can go to one place and find everything they need and a few things they never even new they wanted. You have to make both of these demographics believe/care about what you're saying. I'm not sayin I'm for it, but I'm not against it. You have to take into consideration the fact that no matter what you do at the wal-mart it won't make a difference. This is why you must kill the head to crumble the body. On top of it all don't forget that America's a free market. I know it sucks for employees and small business owners, but business is business and billions of dollars is excellent business.
- Apr 2, 2006 07:34pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
I think you have some valid points, but in the end Wal-Mart has much more power than do the city councils. There have been small victories made by councils in some cities in terms of preventing the construction of Wal-Marts, but in the end, Wal-Mart has vastly larger economic (and hence political) sway.
I disagree that nothing can be done about Wal-Mart. I do, however, agree that the political strategies and tactics that have been employed throughout the last several years are completely bankrupt. For one, there is no radical and visionary world outlook behind the attempts at restraining Wal-Mart. Second, the folks involved in Wal-Mart activism are not even employed by Wal-Mart. Any successful, sustained, and momentous struggle against Wal-Mart will have to be at the behest of the employees locally, nationally, and internationally.
Wal-Mart is organizing, uniting, and disciplining workers from very disparate social and national conditions and bringing them into contact with one another. This helps to create the possibility of a united Wal-Mart workers struggle, but this struggle has to have a vision beyond the just the end of Wal-Mart; it must put the control and administering of society by working people in general as the end goal.
Wal-Mart will not be brought down by its own creators. What I mean is that Wal-Mart is the logical extension of all business: to expand capital and concentrate wealth into fewer and fewer hands. By merely "choosing" where we put our money does not do away with a system that binds workers to wages, it just decides which businesses will expand and which won't. But if we all start buying from Target instead, then we are just switching rulers instead of ruling ourselves.
- Apr 2, 2006 08:21pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
[url=http://www.myspace.com/jdflow]JDFlow on Myspace[/url]
[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
That all sounds good on paper, but holds limited credibility. You have to figure in factual variables.
1) How successful have you, personally been in deconstructing a corporate conglomerate? Would you donate all of your free time and money to it,and be able to find someone else to carry your torch confidently after your death? A swaying of this size won't happen in our lifetime, it will take generations.
2) After company executives realize that you are organizing from within why wouldn't they just fire your following? They have created a unit of highly replaceable employees.
3) Every company with product on wal-mart's shelves is for wal-mart, seeing as how they are "the" prime investor.
4) If wal-mart falls it's employees have gone from underpayed to unpayed. This is bad.
5) You said it, if we get rid of one, there's another close behind (KMart, Walgreens, Osco, etc.) that would be happy to slip thier little feet into wal-mart's giant shoes.
6) There are about 1000 more variables to take into consideration.
Like I said, I'm not for it, but I'm not against it. The real problem isn't wal-mart. It's our communities. In order to do anything of this stature we must first bring the community together. Once that happens I can guarantee that wal-mart won't be your immanent problem. Once your organize and politically educate a community there will surely be bigger fish to fry. For example, why aren't Kansas City schools producing a higher level of college graduates? Where is all of our tax money going? Why are we paying so much for health care. See, if all these questions were answered wal-mart wouldn't be so bad. If more adults went to college they wouldn't work at wal-mart, and if health care was affordable they could work at wal-mart knowing they could protect thier family. If our tax was put to use on some sort of public transportation, it could eliminate the need for a car, ultimately reducing your bills. It's not wal-mart, it's our community.
- Apr 2, 2006 09:28pm by NRG - livin the art that is life !
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It feels like it is both community and political to me. there is seldom on thing that is tipping the balance in one direction.
it feels like a systemic break down in self esteem over decades of the people to the point where survival is the goal and not living a whole life.
this factor at the core can permiate everything every decision, action, goal
just thinking about it out loud.
- Apr 2, 2006 09:56pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
[url=http://www.myspace.com/jdflow]JDFlow on Myspace[/url]
[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
yeah, thats why we need to organize to have anything.
I forget who this is quoting, but I read it in school and it stuck with me.
"Society is a joint stock company. The virtue in request is conformity. The non conformist must not be hindered with good or bad, but decide which is good and bad for themselves."
As a revolutionary you can't walk into a nieghborhood of middle class suburbans and expect to make a statement. You have to educate the people first.
- Apr 2, 2006 10:53pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Well said, JD, but I still have some contentious points to address.
First of all, I'm not talking about "deconstructing a corporate conglomerate". It is much larger than Wal-Mart; it is a class system which rests firmly on capital and wage labor that has to be defeated. And it can be done because it has happened in this country and elsewhere, whether the mass movements have been democratic, socialist, anarchist, or communist in form. These movements have all radically changed their economic and class structures.
The French Revolution overthrew the monarchy, the Russian Revolution expropriated the capitalists, the Hungarian working-class defeated the Stalinists, the Civil War and Reconstruction in this country overthrew the southern ruling-class planters and emancipated American slaves, etc. etc. etc.
Freeing working people in America can be done, but no person can do it and shutting down Wal-Mart won't do it either.
An organizing attempt at one Wal-Mart will not suffice, indeed, but it may possibly the be the spark which ignites the prairie fire. Anything could be the spark, but the sheer nature of our economic system behooves all people to start organizing in their respective places of work. Whether this organization occurs or not will not override the fact that people are already resisting on the job right now.
Secondly, it won't take superheroes to build a mass movement, it actually consists of regular people asserting their power through organization. For instance, the fact that we have an eight-hour workday, overtime pay, free schools, libraries, etc. indicates that these reforms have been wrested, not given. It wasn't superheroes that won the eight-hour day in this country in 1877, it was railroad and other workers who fought en masse economically (via strikes and sabotage) and politically for this kind of radical legislation.
Third, being for or against Wal-Mart has absolutely nothing to do with buying their products. You are right in many instances on this part. Folks spend their money there because their products are affordable. People don't realize their own economic privileges when they say that folks shouldn't buy from Wal-Mart. Not everyone has that simple choice.
Four, if Wal-Mart falls, yes, so does its employees. Thank you for making that clear to those who just want to put them out of business. Putting them out of business means putting 1.6 million people out on the street. What I am talking about is a social struggle; a class struggle inclusive of all wage workers, but I think that Wal-Mart workers in particular have a strategic footing seeing that they are world's largest employer and the fact that they have workers in a dozen different countries.
I disagree strongly that the problem arises in our communities. Our communities are an afterthought. That does not make them any less important, but there is a process by which society functions and it unequivocally begins in the workplace.
Thousands of people spread across a sparse community all converge in one location and spend most of their waking hours there getting paid in disproportion to the profits they create for their employers. No where do you find such a multiracial and multinational community as your workplace. There are exceptions to this rule as regards the extent of diversity in your place of work, but Wal-Mart is no such exception. I worked alongside black, white, Latino, Arab, and African brothers and sisters who you might normally think you have nothing in common with, but yet you have so much more in common than you would with your employer who may be of the same color or nationality.
Our seemingly independent city councils are handing businesses like Wal-Mart tax abatements without any sort of public involvement...taxes which pay for things like healthcare, education, and city amenities. So it isn't that government runs businesses, but that businesses run the government. The government is simply the political organization of the business class. The government exists to function as the aggregate interest of capitalists and to pass policies which reflect and support that interest.
Lastly, for all those who do not shop at Wal-Mart I say to you as someone said to me once, "Personal politics are not revolutionary." Buying products should never be a political choice.
- Apr 2, 2006 11:09pm by phism
[quote:ebbf88695d="Krisna"]Phism, why don't you get a job there and try to organize some of the workers, man? I would be willing to talk with you about that being a former Wal-Mart employee and organizer myself. I have a lot of experience and lessons learned which you might find of use. Holla at me. Peace.
-rebel[/quote:ebbf88695d]
they actually have specific measures against that.
it's more something to do for fun and to cause chaos for them. if nobody showed up for work, there'd be a lot of pissed of managers and customers probably.
and hell, bad publicity from opening day is probably cool.
- Apr 2, 2006 11:12pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Of course they do. You didn't think it would be easy did you? 🙂
- Apr 2, 2006 11:59pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
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[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
Look, it's this simple. Capitalism has asserted itself as a neccisary evil internationally. You kill the economic growth of capitalism in America, then you kill the millions of families who barely eat off of the sweat shop production. You kill a trillion dollar a year government tax income budget. In return, you kill schools, libraries, public assistance, etc. What happened in 1877 is completely irrelavent today. Times have changed. If we don't organize the communities with a plan that works worldwide, how long do think it would be before hundreds of countries living off the trickle of this gross misuse of capitalist power would blame us.
- Apr 3, 2006 12:06am by phism
that's not true... if you pull globalized capitalism out of third world countries, you're giving them their farmland back for sustaining foods instead of thousands of acres of coffee and sugar and factories and such..
i'm not talking about saving america, i'm talking about being obnoxious to an asshole company.
- Apr 3, 2006 12:20am by Hex
So....why are people beefing with Wal-Mart? What did I miss?
Fred.
- Apr 3, 2006 01:01am by phism
is that a serious question?
http://wakeupwalmart.com/
- Apr 3, 2006 02:04am by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
JD, I didn't realize it was that simple. My sincere apology for disagreeing.
- Apr 3, 2006 03:44pm by JDFlow - [url=http://www.my.rawkus.com/profile/jdflow]JDFlow on Rawkus[/url]
[url=http://www.myspace.com/jdflow]JDFlow on Myspace[/url]
[url=http://ccedistribution.blogspot.com/]Distribution & Marketing[/url] Location: Seattle
LOL, you crack me up Krisna. I was just giving one possibility, but I think phism's right. Give em back thier land!
- Apr 8, 2006 08:09am by Hex
[quote:43556e8ac0="phism"]is that a serious question?
http://wakeupwalmart.com/[/quote:43556e8ac0]
Why would it not be serious? Not every one is up on these sorts of things....or cares, really. While I'm sympathetic towards your cause I don't have much free time to be a champion against the evil empire of Wal-Mart.
Anyway, good luck with that.
Fred.
- Apr 9, 2006 02:19am by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Hex, thank you. No heroes will "bring down" Wal-Mart. The employees of that company will ultimately decide its fate; whether it will remain the new economic catch-all for employment of poor whites and people of color...or a real economic lever or power that will be weilded toward the emancipation of workers as a whole.
[i:cda85b1676]"The working class is inherently revolutionary. This is not a matter of formal consciousness. “The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas.†[2] It is a matter of developing in practice the capacity to create a new society. That development takes the form, of necessity, of exhausting the possibilities of bourgeois society. That is, workers create organizations of various kinds in order to struggle for whatever seems useful to them. These struggles, whether they take place within the framework of formal organizations or not, win for the working class whatever it is possible to win under capitalism. Whether these victories are wage increases, or free universal compulsory education, or child labor laws, or anything else, they are never granted without struggle. That is, they are never - in the first instance - tricks to deceive the working class."[/i:cda85b1676]
-Martin Glaberman
- Apr 9, 2006 09:53pm by phism
[quote:e99e312a32="Hex"][quote:e99e312a32="phism"]is that a serious question?
http://wakeupwalmart.com/[/quote:e99e312a32]
Why would it not be serious? Not every one is up on these sorts of things....or cares, really. While I'm sympathetic towards your cause I don't have much free time to be a champion against the evil empire of Wal-Mart.
Anyway, good luck with that.
Fred.[/quote:e99e312a32]
i guess my asking if it was a serious question was a serious question. you know, sarcasm and the internet.
- Apr 9, 2006 10:04pm by Adru
i havent even read this whole thread.but i actually have to agree with krisna(even if you sell grills)
i agree because while wal mart truely IS an evil empire as hex(no offense,but read something dog) mockingly called it...and i pray they would all just implode like its fucking south park,a little protest or some cancelled interviews will do absolutely nothing except make some "activists"feel like they'r fighting the power and shit.and more power to you.
but honestly,theres so many other things to be focused on.im hoping someday we can start to see all this corporate capitalist slave labor shit come to an end.but to get to that point much more drastic measures have to be taken.peace to all of you though,i got 30 seconds on this library shit....1
- Apr 9, 2006 10:10pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Nah, I don't sell grills, Dru. That'd be Mr. JD. I have one set, four bottoms, white gold slugs. It cost $160 bucks man. You would have thought, the way its been painted recently, that I spent my life savings on it. haha. I don't even wear them, but once a month. They are kind of uncomfortable honestly, but I like to wear them out to hip-hop shows.
As for Wal-Mart/capitalism/slave labor, me and you need to kick it more often bro. You came through a couple times and we had a dope conversation...we should build some more. Tell Nikki I said what's up. Peace.
Krisna
- Apr 9, 2006 10:16pm by Adru
aww....damn my bad man..ha ha....j.d.--i dig your steez man,but come on yo.no disrespect but..well,damn....so krisna--me and you have talked before?oh..,.no wait im pretty sure your thinking badru...im adru the misphit actually.i know he got a girl named nikki and shit.word to grills!just logged back in,ima go thru this board....1
- Apr 9, 2006 10:18pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
haha...so we are both trippin then. my apologies, dog.
- Apr 10, 2006 12:38am by phism
[quote:849421c8c9="Adru"]i havent even read this whole thread.but i actually have to agree with krisna(even if you sell grills)
i agree because while wal mart truely IS an evil empire as hex(no offense,but read something dog) mockingly called it...and i pray they would all just implode like its fucking south park,a little protest or some cancelled interviews will do absolutely nothing except make some "activists"feel like they'r fighting the power and shit.and more power to you.
but honestly,theres so many other things to be focused on.im hoping someday we can start to see all this corporate capitalist slave labor shit come to an end.but to get to that point much more drastic measures have to be taken.peace to all of you though,i got 30 seconds on this library shit....1[/quote:849421c8c9]
i guess that's why i wasn't talking about protesting, i was talking about causing a small amount of chaos for their opening few weeks. understaffing and whatnot.
- Apr 10, 2006 07:55am by Hex
[quote:0c298f11d1="Adru"]i havent even read this whole thread.but i actually have to agree with krisna(even if you sell grills)
i agree because while wal mart truely IS an evil empire as hex(no offense,but read something dog) mockingly called it...and i pray they would all just implode like its fucking south park,a little protest or some cancelled interviews will do absolutely nothing except make some "activists"feel like they'r fighting the power and shit.and more power to you.
but honestly,theres so many other things to be focused on.im hoping someday we can start to see all this corporate capitalist slave labor shit come to an end.but to get to that point much more drastic measures have to be taken.peace to all of you though,i got 30 seconds on this library shit....1[/quote:0c298f11d1]
I was putting kids up on things of this nature like 10 years before it was popular to "fight the power". Ask Phil or Joker 70 about me, back in the day I had mad info on pretty much anything remotely similar to this Wal Mart situation, not to mention conspiracy theories, etc. I was doing it back when people would think you are sort of crazy for mentioning these types of things.
Then, it got to the point where you gotta get peace with your existence....I mean, how "real" can you keep it, really? It gets to a point if you research enough, that you will literally not buy any products, from anywhere, because someone somewhere along the way is violating your "code of ethics".
First you ain't buying things from Wal-Mart, because of something you read off the 'net....then you ain't buying stuff from Target, then the next place, and the next until you are traveling mad miles just to get some toliet paper or something simple. I mean, as far as clothes for example, you'd damn near have to make your own gear to not be rocking something from SOMEWHERE that doesn't coincide with what you believe in. I'm 30, I really ain't got time to be thinking about all that, but I'm not knocking anyone for doing their thing, that's why I said "good luck".
Fred.
- Apr 10, 2006 06:46pm by phism
while we're on the subject, apparently costco is really good to its employees, and the ceo only gets $100,000/yr.
and they have the kirkland organic line.
- Apr 10, 2006 06:51pm by Adru
naw, yea...your completely right hex,i find myself buying some shit at wal mart and other big corporate chains because im broke and really have no choice,honestly,even if i do hate everything they represent.and it really is wrong and backwords we have to be in those positions......... i dont know anybody by their net name,probably dont know you at all....but reading your first post--someone would have had to have spent the last few years in a deprevation tank to not know some of the issues with wal mart.thats cool your 30 and dont have time to worry about that--but actually ima little older than you.i spend way TOO much time thinking about this kind of shit though,im slowly tring to learn to appreciate the few complete freedoms we have and the fact that im still breathing....not feel like im in a life and death struggle every second of every day.but yea...to each his own.peace
- Apr 10, 2006 06:52pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Which beckons the question, "How should the capitalists rule?" versus "Should the capitalists rule?" A highly relevant question considering the situation in France right now.
If were are just wanting Wal-Mart employees to get a $3.00 an hour boost, then all we need are either unions or a few simple reforms and not a transfer of class power.
You should ask some Costco workers how much they love their job if you want a less disingenuous gauge of "treating workers good".
- Apr 10, 2006 06:57pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Adru, the few simple freedoms we inherit are the result of the civil struggles of the working class. And, I might add, these freedoms are quickly being wrested from us by capital interests.
I hear you, but if we (working people) don't start taking some cues from the French (considering they have mobilized their entire country around a law that limits the rights of young workers) we will have less and less good to focus on.
- Apr 10, 2006 07:11pm by Adru
theres so many different almost infinite facets to each and everything that has to do with making real changes in this country and world.and im not one for pseudo intellectual political discussions.i'll restate in its simplist form the basics of what i believe in and stand for. and thats food,clothing ,shelter,medical care and schooling.free of charge.for all....which is not by any means an impossibility or not feasable.thats what i care about.we wouldnt have to work 50 hour a week jobs we dont give a fuck about that do nothing for us but provide a check.i dont feel there should be,or needs to be a "working class".since europeans came to this country the number one goal has been to maintain a class order.how should the capitalists rule?they shouldnt rule,and im confident one day they wont.the biggest cue we can take from the french is taking shit to the streets and put some fear in the hearts of the beurocracy.peace
- Apr 10, 2006 08:02pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
I'd have to say, correct me if I'm wrong, that everything you just said was political.
Please explain what you mean when you say, "I don't feel there should be or needs to be a 'working class'," but then go on to say, "food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and schooling free of charge for all....which is not by any means an impossibility or not feasable. That's what I care about. We wouldn't have to work 50-hour-a-week jobs we don't give a fuck about that do nothing for us, but provide a check."
Brother, that [i:0f34bc09f1]is[/i:0f34bc09f1] the working class who works 50 hours a week. Who do you think I'm talking about other than us? I'm not talking about a mythological non-existent class, but a material class that produces surplus value; value which is extorted through wages.
Secondly, who will make your vision possible other than the working class?
I don't see "real change" as a complicated psuedo-intellectual discussion. As see it as a self-active process that working people are engaged in. I hear what you're saying, though in terms of becoming a complicated issue. I see it as all organically connected, however. Peace.
- Apr 10, 2006 08:05pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
By the way, I would like to retract my statement where I said "taking cues from the French". I only say that in light of recent events there, but we have our own rich history of struggle that we could be taking cues from that we know nothing about. Peace.
- Apr 10, 2006 08:28pm by Adru
here we go....yes of course everything was political,what im saying is i dont like having conversations about politics or debates with people that just requote books they've read and throw around 10 dollar words.not implying that you,im just no plitical fucking sience expert,i just know how me and people in simmilar situations are affected on a daily basis.but thanks so much for clearing up for me what "working class" is.are you serious?do you really think i could be that stupid dog?my basic point was just we live in a class system.and when you break it all down,all we wanna do is just live.do whatever we love to do every day of our lives.native americans had the ideal society for hundreds of years before puritans came.thats all im saying.basically.NO ONE from malcom to che to huey,etc.. has ever been able to come up with a clear cut concrete solution and a way we can completely make this happen--so obviously i cant sit here and tell you bit by bit exactly how this can happen,beyond the few ideas and the beliefs i have.but of course,and obviously it would take a huge effort and sacrifice by lower income and and working class people. its been the main goal of every major revolutionary just to see the people live and prosper.thats all im talking about.
- Apr 10, 2006 08:39pm by Adru
and i in no way retract my statement about the french.people of every class and creed over there are doing what americas most hard core"annarchists"and "activists"are scared to.
- Apr 10, 2006 08:42pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Okay, Adru, calm down, bro! Why does everyone get so heated in here, man? I'm so not hot over this. I just wanted to have a dialogue. Ideas are just ideas, man. You are what you do, not what you think. I could care less about what everyone "thinks".
Listen, man. If you want to have a principled and peaceful discussion between two folks, let's do it. I'm not trying to make you look bad, dog, and I don't think you're stupid. I never even implied you were stupid. As a matter of fact, I don't imply anything, I say exactly what I mean.
I'm not trying to throw around big words for the sake of doing it. I just choose words that elaborate my points better. That's it.
I don't think I said anything which is antagonistic to your point. It seemed as if you were trying to disagree with me and all I was saying is that we are in basic agreement. I wanted a little bit of explanation when you stated we don't need a working class, but other than that were did we fall off?
No disrepect, Adru. None at all. Peace.
- Apr 10, 2006 08:54pm by Adru
i never saw as us disagreeing and im not heated.but you sat there and tried to explain to me what the working class is man.thats all.and i wasnt trying to have a discussion,i was trying to put up one post and be out.
and when i said we dont need a working class,i was saying we dont need classes,period...
does any one think about the fact we dont actually in any way need 90%percent of what the working class in factories,etc,produces?the rest of the working class for the most part has a completely meaningless job,like i said just to have a check.the majority of us work for 40-50 years doing something we hate.hopefully get a decent retirement and die.i could go on and on,and get more into detail.but i dont really want to,buy the album.or get my free e.p.i speak better thru music anyway.
but,the "working class"life i just explained,
thats not life.
1
- Apr 10, 2006 09:02pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Okay, man. Well, I won't keep you by replying. I will just read your posts and let you be out. I was not being patronizing, but you felt patronized obviously. I also noticed you felt the need to make another political statement. But I will let you have the last word on it. Peace.
- Apr 10, 2006 09:07pm by Adru
???you aked me what i meant.i told you.peace
- Apr 10, 2006 09:10pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Two words, message board.
It doesn't take much for two people to misunderstand each other completely and wind up sore about it. Let's just chalk it up to that. You can't hear my tone or see my expressions and neither can I with you. So its all good, man. I agree with 99 percent of what you said.
- Apr 10, 2006 09:17pm by Adru
yea man its all good.i seriously wasnt getting mad.i cuss every other word when i talk and i type like i talk..maybe that has something to do with it.and sometimes i dont type out(or say in conversation) what im trying to say perfectly,which i suppose is why you thought i might not know what the working class is..but naw,i started this off saying i agreed with you,that was my point in posting in the first place.stay up
- Apr 10, 2006 09:20pm by Krisna - "We live in an intensely political age and theory and historical experience show us that the condition of any artistic development is an uncompromising hostility to the values of Stalinism and to those of American bourgeois society."
-CLR James
Word. I saw that you wrote "Che and Huey", so I certainly realize that you know a little about what you're saying even if we may have some points of contention.
Peace.
